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1 the bridegroom and the bride on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:04 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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deleted by me, jugghead, so that others would not be led astray



Last edited by jugghead on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : not to lead astray)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

2 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:48 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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"COW DUNG" ..... "DOG VOMIT"

Don't believe a single word I wrote. affraid

I apologize to the members of this forum and ask your forgiveness, especially of Nathan.

You are right Nathan, the spirit is the core and I was wearing mine on the outside, wanting to be right.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

3 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:23 pm

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Ahh, Bless your heart. I don't think anything anyone has to say is worthless. The only reason I didn't reply is because it was a little confusing to me, and I was mulling it over before I posted.

This is a hard subject, at best we can speculate and discuss it.

The only thing I have a problem with when it comes to specifically "The Bridegroom and the Bride" is this.

In the natural their not married, in other words it has not been consummated as of yet. And I don't think that we here are considered the Bride anymore, but the Wife.

And I noticed in Rev. that there is a bride, and then there is a wife. So..... What's up with that? Smile
If it doesn't have to do with consummation.

Blessings




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4 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:14 pm

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thank you for the reply, and yes, I agree with you and I was shown that it was from my own analytic mind and not from His Spirit.

However, I did learn some things from it, I became another character in the Bible,I don't know the details of the story or who the man was, but this was an example in me of the man who had to chew grass.

The words that I wrote were what I thought was right, constantly chewing on it, but it "came out" all wrong, thus the reason for the words "cow dung".

The second example is the dog that returns to his own vomit, while I was writing it (off line) I would go back to it and read it again, taking pride in my knowledge and an ability to piece things together and then after I put it here, Christ showed me it was my vomit than I had put here, thus I was a dog who returned to his vomit and ate it; thus the words "dog vomit".

It is no wonder that these examples are dramatic, it made more of an impression on me in my understanding of them when I actually experienced them.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

5 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:33 pm

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Scherryl wrote:Ahh, Bless your heart. I don't think anything anyone has to say is worthless. The only reason I didn't reply is because it was a little confusing to me, and I was mulling it over before I posted.

This is a hard subject, at best we can speculate and discuss it.

The only thing I have a problem with when it comes to specifically "The Bridegroom and the Bride" is this.

In the natural their not married, in other words it has not been consummated as of yet. And I don't think that we here are considered the Bride anymore, but the Wife.

And I noticed in Rev. that there is a bride, and then there is a wife. So..... What's up with that? Smile
If it doesn't have to do with consummation.

Blessings

So is your understanding that we are only considered the bride before the joining of our two spirits (our spirit and His Spirit) and than once that joining takes place, we become the wife?





Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

6 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:44 pm

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Not exactly. I've used this example before, and it's found in Luke.

Luk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

The Lord revealed to me from this that happened to Mary, is symbolic for our Birthing The Son also, or bringing Him forth in our earth. To me this is conception when our Soul and spirit are in full agreement with His Will.

This is how we are transformed into His image.

Notice she uses, her Soul in connection with her Lord.
and her spirit to her Saviour.

The Soul magnifies Him in the earth, while our spirit rejoices in the Heavens in God.

Lord is put for ruler, Saviour is connected to our spirit.
I found it fascinating, that she would go to such detail as what it took to bring forth The Son in this earth.

Blessings




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7 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:56 pm

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Scherryl wrote:Not exactly. I've used this example before, and it's found in Luke.

Luk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

The Lord revealed to me from this that happened to Mary, is symbolic for our Birthing The Son also, or bringing Him forth in our earth. To me this is conception when our Soul and spirit are in full agreement with His Will.

This is how we are transformed into His image.

Notice she uses, her Soul in connection with her Lord.
and her spirit to her Saviour.

The Soul magnifies Him in the earth, while our spirit rejoices in the Heavens in God.

Lord is put for ruler, Saviour is connected to our spirit.
I found it fascinating, that she would go to such detail as what it took to bring forth The Son in this earth.

Blessings

Think of me as a six year old, I'm lost, where is the connection with "bride" and "wife" with what you just mentioned here?



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

8 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:46 pm

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This conversation has taken an interesting turn.

I'm going to make a confession to y'all. I can't follow most of these revelations. I think years ago I would have really enjoyed these compositions and may have been able to analyze with the best of you, but my brain just doesn't seem to work right anymore. Someone put a message up on facebook this morning from 1 Peter 3:9 and it really resonated. I couldn't wait to look it up in Nathan's "Message" translation (I'm having so much fun with this).

1Pe 3:8-16 Summing up: Be agreeable, be sympathetic, be loving, be compassionate, be humble. (9) That goes for all of you, no exceptions. No retaliation. No sharp-tongued sarcasm. Instead, bless--that's your job, to bless. You'll be a blessing and also get a blessing. (10) Whoever wants to embrace life and see the day fill up with good, Here's what you do: Say nothing evil or hurtful; (11) Snub evil and cultivate good; run after peace for all you're worth. (12) God looks on all this with approval, listening and responding well to what he's asked; But he turns his back on those who do evil things. (13) If with heart and soul you're doing good, do you think you can be stopped? (14) Even if you suffer for it, you're still better off. Don't give the opposition a second thought. (15) Through thick and thin, keep your hearts at attention, in adoration before Christ, your Master. Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you're living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy. (16) Keep a clear conscience before God so that when people throw mud at you, none of it will stick. They'll end up realizing that they're the ones who need a bath.

Now THAT's something I can sink my teeth into and run with! Actually, it is more like a verification of what the Lord has already shown me and a scorecard encouraging me to keep moving in this direction. It builds on something He told me once when I was praying for Him to tell me how I might hear His voice directly. "Enter into My gates with thanksgiving," was His succinct answer to my petition. It occurs to me that these guidelines in Peter's epistle are key to remaining in that spirit of thankfulness.

I think I need things simple, like this. It's interesting where the Lord is taking me these days. It's like He's taking me through so much hell just so I can prove to myself that an attitude of gratitude is possible regardless of circumstance. I hope I am getting it, for I desperately need to hear from Him now. I'm contemplating a move which changes everything in this physical life and I want Christ to be at the center of it or I don't want it at all. Two schools of thought here: wait for Him to confirm or "step out in faith" as one brother described it.

I covet that clarity of thought which you all seem to possess! I'm still hoping I'm an "overcomer" even if I don't catch revelation on the same level as you do, but do know that I enjoy listening. Maybe if I stay with it my brain will come back on line. . . Smile

9 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:49 pm

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Well, first she was a Virgin, she had to be according to law, if she was to be Wed. They even pulled out the sheets to show the Blood on them, if there was an accusation against her from her new husband that she wasn't a virgin.

Paul said, he wanted to present them as Chaste Virgins to Christ, right?

So, a Bride is to be a Virgin, which she was.
But a Wife is someone who has consummated the marriage vows with her New Husband, and has become Pregnant, which she shows this in her whole story.

She was found with child, was she not? So therefore a consummation must have occurred.

How ya doing?

This is what is shown IMO, to be the consummation in us, is when our spirit receives from His Spirit, and convinces, or persuades (which is the definition for faith)our Soul, that is where the Union between our spirit/male, and our female/soul is a consummation, and we become pregnant, just like Mary, we are found with a Man Child.

Since Adam is depicted as a Living Soul, as we all were and Dead in sins and trespasses, till we are born again.
The female/soul ruled us, but now that Christ has come, He brings back the Alignment aright, where the Spirit rules not over, but "With" the Soul, in full agreement.




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10 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:57 pm

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Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.




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11 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:59 pm

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Scherryl wrote:Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?


I am so thankful that I can agree with you even if I don't understand!

12 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:02 pm

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I'm sorry David, LOL, but your right there is much I don't get on here either.

But this I have to stand on, because it wasn't taught by men but came directly from Him. That is until He shows me something different.

I'm trying to explain it a simply as I can. Very Happy

Blessings




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13 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:09 pm

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Scherryl wrote:But this I have to stand on, because it wasn't taught by men but came directly from Him. That is until He shows me something different.

I understand THAT perfectly! Very Happy

The things He has shown me are a part of me and there is no denying it.

So what are you bringing out of Matthew and Amos? Is it that if we are walking together then anything we ask of the Father He will do for us? I like that!

I feel as if I am walking alone. It is probable I am deceiving myself in this regard. I'd love for the Lord to get to the bottom of this...

14 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:39 pm

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So what are you bringing out of Matthew and Amos? Is it that if we are walking together then anything we ask of the Father He will do for us? I like that!


If our Soul is in agreement with out spirit which is joined to Him, then we are in agreement with Him, and there is Unity in us. There is Peace. This is His Nature.

Therefore, we have what we ask, because they are not according to our desires, But His.




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15 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:08 pm

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Still waiting for understanding in some of your examples, but I do see that the blood of Christ, is the blood on the sheet, proof that we are a purified virgin (the bride)

and when you mention the spirit/male and the soul/female I get the picture of Adam and Eve in the garden, in that Eve ruled over Adam in eating from the tree when he submitted himself to her and ate also.


But to try and clarify the consummation, what do we receive from His Spirit and what are we persuaded of or to do in order for the consummation to take place?

Sorry, but I am a stickler for details also.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

16 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:43 pm

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Hun I have to go for now, to take care of Mom, but I will be back after 10 to answer you in more detail.

And I agree, I am into the details too.




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17 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:17 am

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But to try and clarify the consummation, what do we receive from His Spirit and what are we persuaded of or to do in order for the consummation to take place? End Quote:

What we receive from His Spirit is Truth, through the Revelation of The Finished Work of Jesus Christ.

Our Soul, (everything we thought we knew, changes our thinking) and agrees with what we just received in our spirit, (this is becoming one with Him) this is the consummation. The two, spirit and soul, male and female become one when they both agree, it is a Union, and says Amen. This is the Persuasion the convincing by The Holy Spirit of God, that produces REAL FAITH. And in turn we have received Faith to conceive SEED. This brings on the transformation into His Image. And now when that which was dead our soul, becomes quickened (made alive). This is partaking of His Divine Nature, this is being a partaker of His Resurrection.

And this is displayed in and through our body.

That's the way I see it. This is also how we find rest for our souls.

Blessings




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18 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:11 am

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1Ti 2:11 Let the woman/soul learn in silence with all subjection.


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she/soul shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Why? because that is the ONLY way the soul can receive the Good SEED of consummation, is through faith, Love, and holiness. This is the ONLY way she can produce Godly children after HIS kind. (Spiritually Speaking of course.)
This is why I believe that the soul is the place that houses our Nature for it to be manifested in a physical way.
Whether Godliness or ungodliness. Depending upon the seed we receive. It is the middle place between the outer court realm, and the Holy of Holies.
This is the place of the womb, that conceives Seed, it is the place of planting, soil/soul/Garden/earth, in the darkness, till it comes forth in manifestation. Only then can we know what has been planted/received. Whether it be wheat or tare.

I believe that the only reason we see the separation of Eve taken out of Adam, is to show the desires of Adam's heart/soul, and what was leading him. Remember, Jesus said that He planted Good seed in His Garden, but while men "Slept" an enemy sowed tares? Adam was put to sleep. The serpent was a picture of what was in the Mind of Adam, that caused the soul/heart to be deceived.

Notice it was not Adam/spirit that was deceived, but his woman/soul, she was the one that was deceived.

If Adam/his spirit was not deceived, then he would have had to of known that he was in direct disobedience to God.
Therefore, the Truth to some degree had to be in his mind (Thou shalt not eat), in order for the Traducer to twist and to distort that Truth so that his soul/Woman could be deceived. And thereby defiling the whole body. This I also believe is how the "spirit of the World" came into being.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I hope that explains in more detail what you were asking.

Blessings



Last edited by Scherryl on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total




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19 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:14 am

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I agree Sheryl. Something just came to me. When Jesus said you must be born of water and spirit. The sea is the outer court. The natural man. The heavens are the HOH or spirit.

20 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:22 am

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Yep, and the inner court is the place of the receiving or not, the wrestling or not, the Jacob/Israel, the James of Peter and John, the mary of Martha and Lazarus. etc.etc.

Then again I could be wrong. Embarassed

Blessings




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21 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:26 am

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And when our soul is not in agreement with our spirit, it can cause Hell on earth. Raging waves of the sea, foaming out our shame. etc. etc...




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22 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:42 am

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yes, yes, and yes, it makes even my understanding of what I was explaining to begin with make sense.

Let's go back to the layout of the temple, outer, inner and HOH

Outer = body/mind
inner = soul
HOH = our spirit

it is this where we (especially me) can get confused since the soul is the middle but it is not the core

if we turn that sideways and raise the soul where it is higher that the body/mind and our spirit, the lines of connection make a triangle; a mountain (power, pride desires/desires of the flesh), and now turning it 180 degrees, we are looking at it from the other direction, in the eyes of God, it is a valley, the valley of death.

lets now take it a step further, we have first the body/mind on the left (west) we have our spirit on the right (east), the soul is the other two points (north) in pride, power and desires and it is (south) in the valley of death. (I know other thoughts are going to come together in you with this concept)

it is the diamond of the world. when the mountain is made low, even with body/mind and spirit, at the same time the valley is also being raised to be even, this is what His Spirit is doing in us through the written/spoken word, once it is even, it is upon this even surface His new temple is built. the temple of Christ in us, His Mind, Soul, and Spirit which we enter into. (I will dine with him)

because of what you said, or should I say, because of what was revealed to you, said by Him through your voice, if we have the model of the earth as the temple, the crust and mantle being the outer court (the body/mind), the outer core being the inner court (the soul) and the core being the HOH (the spirit), once the Spirit of God enters into us, it now removes that line of division between our soul and spirit making the HOH and inner court one, that line of division between the two that was removed was the tearing of the veil.

So now we only have one circle inside of another circle, the inner circle being the combination of His Spirit, our spirit and our soul which can now saturate what still surrounds it the body/mind.

I now have been given terms of my understanding from your terms of understanding, now that is God speaking in tongues (different languages)

Bless your heart Scherryl, may God continue to use you for His purpose.

Also had this come to mind after I posted this, our mind in combination with His becomes the placenta that surrounds the Man Child.



Last edited by jugghead on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : extra thought)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

23 teh bridegroonm and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:02 am

Hibbs


I didn't see this thread until this morning so don't know what the initial post was about.

IMO there has been some confusion added by not understanding the "psuche" as the feminine bride and the spirit as the masculine husbandman. The marriage is consummated when there is intimacy and that in turn is followed by conception followed by birth. The thing about all of these types and shadows is that they have a line upon a line and a truth upon a truth. There are several things that each of the Bible stories can teach...or in other words, there are several aspects or seasons of life that can be addressed. When a child, we understand one way. As we mature, we begin to gain a different understanding, and hopefully, we mature until we see clearly what was there to see all the time but it was hidden behind tradition or the veil of the flesh...the blindness of our own interpretation. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT TYPES AND SHADOWS ARE ONLY THAT...THEY ARE NOT THE FULL MANIFESTATION AND THEY ARE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION... OFTEN TO BEING MISUNDERSTOOD.

Eve was not considered the one at fault because she was deceived. Adam, the first Adam, her husband who had walked with God in the "cool" ("ruach" which is usually translated spirit or breath) of the day knew what he was doing and was held responsible. (When you consider that mankind was subjected to futility not willingly but because of him who subjected it in hope, and that Adam and Lucifer have an awful lot in common, and that Jesus is the second Adam; it can make you think.)... Eve added an additional law...do not touch, which may even have come from Adam. The rabbis regularly add "fence laws" to keep the people away from situations where they are likely to break the laws of the torah. Did this come from her or from Adam in the first religious activity??

In any event, when the bride submits to her husband, the soul yields to the spirit...to her head if you will. She then becomes intimate with her husband (God is a spirit and they that worship worship in the spirit) and she conceives seed. The word is the seed made flesh. Mary, chief virgin in the bible, says to the angel of the Lord: "Be it done unto me according to thy word" and her womb becomes fruitful with child....Jesus is formed in her womb.

When teaching in a house that was full, messengers came to Jesus and said to Him that his mother and his brothers were outside. His reply was to ask who is my mother, and my sister and my brother? Is it not whoever does the words that I speak...in other words...is it not the one that receives my word with gladness and it transforms him or her?

Now it gets interesting. The child that is conceived is always a son...what is more interesting is that we men have wombs and can conceive as well...put all of that in perspective with barren wombs... and you have a lot to look into. Wasn't even Sarah barren when Isaac was conceived and isn't it from Abraham's seed (singular..the seed of faith...Jesus the Word) that all of the children of the kingdom come?

The child that is conceived in the womb is the manchild or son and as Rachel died to bring forth Benjamin (son of my right hand....who received five portions (grace) from Joseph...a type of Christ...with five changes of garment...grace again) on the way home to the promised land, our soul yields it's life and it's name and it's nature in order for this son to come forth. We no longer use our maiden name...be it Adam or Eve...but now we are known by the name of Christ.

The woman in Revelation is a type of both the church (through the dimension of pentecost and the middle room of the tabernacle) and the bride. As a woman, she brings forth this son. Pentecost was a time of intimacy...a wedding feast if you will and there must have been a wedding garment to attend (you must be born again). In the intimacy of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the Word is quickened...i.e. it becomes life in your innermost being...out of your belly...your loins...or whatever other type intended to show that it comes from the place of conception within. The season of gestation began and it is now the time of hard labor. "Labor to enter His rest" we are told..."push" the nurse cries into our pained hearing...will this labor ever cease...how long before this child "crowns" and comes forth...I think this is going to kill me.

Ahh...why do we think it strange? Doesn't even nature demonstrate the process? Isn't the whole world in labor looking for the son? As we become one in Him and allow Him to make us bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh, we will find the vision of the dry bones (that even now have been rattling) come together and the breath (ruach again) will return.

24 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:26 am

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Hi Hibbs,

all that information is great, and I know that it is important, this started as "bridegroom and bride" and has now been focused on "bride and "wife"

I am a slow learner, I have to understand detail, if I first do not understand the details of one example, I cannot understand the details of all you said, I know for a fact that is is important, but I have to set it aside at the moment and understand the details of only one or two examples, after that is understood by me, I will be able to see the patterns in all that you mentioned.

For me it has to be brought into my mind a little at a time and each thing understood before I can move on.

Please do not misunderstand what I am trying to say here, you have a wealth of knowledge, but I can't take it in all at once, I would get confused.

I'm just learning to walk, taking baby steps, your walking to fast for me and I can't keep up.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

25 Re: the bridegroom and the bride on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:49 am

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Mark you and I are saying exactly the same thing.
So I say Amen to all that you say.

I'm curious, did you read all the rest of the replies before you posted? or did you just post to the topic?

Blessings




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