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Does God speak to you when you're in a place of ignorance and sin?

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Ebot76


So, I'm new to this forum. A couple of weeks ago, I was living through one of those fiery trials of life. It was then that God spoke to me. First, through my child, And then directly. It was the first time for me for both experiences and I'll never forget them.
However, I am doubting whether my ears were open to hear. I am doubting whether the choice I made was the right one. I have not felt His presence since I made this choice. So, did I intentionally defy Him? Not conscienciously, I can say. But did I do the wrong thing or do I just need to wait as Ive read other people saying?
I've read your words say that you just know when you know. But, clue me in. What do you do when you don't know. I am praying and I am reading His word but I still feel lost. Is it my own sin getting in the way of me hearing?'
I want to hear your experiences and your advice because I desperately want to continue down this path. Please share with me.

Long2JC

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Paul says in Romans “For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do ”
Paul is sharing what he had discovered about his very nature, which given to his own strength he could not always do what he knew was the right thing to do. He discovered that the very nature of sin is that it destroys your very capacity to know you sin. He goes on to say that the power to overcome this dilemma is the presence of the Holy Spirit within oneself.

Also the recognition and definition of sin changes as we grow in our relationship with the Lord. This occurs because as our personal relationship grows with Christ we move from definitions, distinctions and specifics - to concepts of life and righteousness.

If this is true then the recognition of what ignorance and sin is changes as our understanding grows.

We can see from Paul’s experiences that God does talk to us even when we are ignorant or have sin, since both of these are in our nature.

It is in the nature of our mind or natural thought process to doubt what it has heard when we go back over something again and again. This is because we hear God through our spirit and our mind normal gets its information from our ears. Again by its very nature our mind wants to always be in control of everything. Since our mind cannot control our spirit, unless we allow it to do so, it will want to cause us to question if we really heard through our spirit or not.

Does God become silent in our lives as punishment for a choice we made, NO He does not. Does God become silent in our lives at times, Yes He does. If there is a choice we need to make and we are in a place of understanding where we are capable of making that choice He will wait for us to make a choice. Even in this scenario He will not leave us of forsake us. Many times He is waiting for us to ask Him a question for his guidance and we are afraid to ask because we know that we are not in spiritual alignment with Him. This fear comes from our mind and not our spirit. Fear is one of the biggest control buttons our brain has to keep us under its control.

There is no cut and dried answer that someone can give you because our relationship with God is unique for each one of us. I personally would not wait silently for God to speak first. At the very least I ask if there is something I should know or need to do because I miss the feeling of His presence. Remember He has not left you or forsaken you, He still hears you and is watching over you. It is His burning desire to have a deeper relationship with you. You know this because He allowed His Son to die so He could have a relationship with you.

Sometimes, He is speaking to us but we are not hearing Him. If I think this is the case then I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me into the place where I hear Him again. I guess what I am saying, is that I realize that I am living in a fallen nature; God knows that I have this condition, so I pursue His voice and the feeling of presence around me until it returns. After I ask I always wait for an answer, but I need to make sure that my mind and spirit have quieted down enough to hear and have patience. Regardless of the length of time it takes to feel His presence again I keep doing the things that He has clearly shown me to do.

As you are praying, ask the Holy Spirit to tell you what to pray for and as you are reading ask the Lord to give you greater understanding of what you have read and to show you how it applies to your life. Don’t stop asking just because you are not hearing anything.

And when you are listening, be sure to pay attention to the thoughts that pop into your head that are not in line with what you were thinking. They are usually from the Lord.

Blessings

klm4jc


Welcome and it's good to have you join in our chorus!

Two things come to my mind. The first is a rule that I have come to live by and it is a question of faith. When I ask the Lord for wisdom or guidance, I know that he will give it to me liberally and freely as long as we ask in faith doubting nothing (James 1:5). When I step out in that faith and make my decision based on that, I don't doubt. I don't worry about whether it was the right or wrong decision, I just have faith. I think the Lord instructed us in this way so that even if we misunderstood what He was saying as a result of our fallen nature, we are in a place of faith none the less and it positions us to hear and act if and when a course correction comes. In other words, let's say I make this decision believing God told me to do X (whatever X is), I am more confident in God's ability to a.) use it unto my own good and b.) bring about a correction and lead me into truth.

Regarding God's presence. A funny think happened to me on the way to this forum this morning (that's funny in itself). I was driving down a road listening to some good tunes and thinking about how much I miss the Lord's presence (been in a wilderness of sorts lately). I got behind this car that was going really slow. I could have passed it and got home quicker. However, I felt the Lord tell me to stay behind the car and just slow down. Then when I did, I wasn't to get angry with the person driving slow. I was just to drive patiently behind this guy. As I let go of my desire for control of the situation and allowed patience to have it's perfect work, I felt the Lord say 'there, that is my presence Kevin, that patience that you feel, that is my nature and you are partaking of it'. It was comforting. He's closer than we think. If we would just look at the fruit of His spirit as it manifests in our life and recognize it as His presence (instead of waiting for gold to fall or glory balls to appear) we would indeed tabernacle with Him more.

Not sure if that helps much, but it was what was on my heart.
Peace,
Kevin

A.R.T.I.C

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Welcome Brooke,

Well, all I will be doing is mirroring Kevin's reply really.
He pretty much said what I was going to say, The Lord is always with us, and always ready to lead us, but we don't always recognize it. But wither we do or not, if we step out in faith and it happens to be the wrong way, we trust that even in that He is faithful to turn it around for our good.

I have come to "know" that because He lives within me, that where ever I go, and whatever I do, there He is. This comforts me.
And like Kevin said, He can speak to us in so many different ways, and through so many different things, such as music, movies, the rain, the sun, the trees, and even through my pets.

If we acknowledge Him in all "OUR WAYS", He will direct our path. In other words, if our heart is set on Him and we look for Him in everything we do, we are more apt to see Him everywhere, and that is His presence. Then it becomes much more than a feeling, but a Knowing.

Blessings

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

cross-eyed

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I'm going to be super simple on this and just add to these wonderful insights already given one more statement.

Which choice produces life, and which one doesn't?

Oops . .. that's not a statment . . .that's a question.

How does one "know" that God has spoken to them . . . for me, if what he's telling me is something to "do"... it always comes with an affirmation. It's never just a "one time" thought or image. It usually pairs up with another source. For me personally, a lot of times it was my wife that brought the affirmation. When we quit the church . . .I haven't told anyone this, but when we "decided" we were being released . . .not by the church but by God who called us in the first place . . .it's one of those things where you pull back from the daily activities and see/look for the bigger picture.

While I was "in" the church, I felt for some time that the message in me was going to eventually bring me either to a confrontation with the church leaders, or a release from their controling ways. I had already had a confrontation or two, but never the release to step down. Even though I sensed that time would come. The actual affirmation happened through our local middle school of all things.

They hired my wife as a nurse-para. When you look at that in and of itself, it means nothing other than now my wife will no longer worry about going stir crazy once our twin boys get into 1st grade. But as we saw things "in" the church heading to a cross roads and at the same time, my wife, who's had zero experience in the field of nursing, gets hired over several other people who not only were nurses, but they were nurse-paras in other previous jobs . . .they were a "shoe-in" to get this position, but it didn't happen that way.

The moment she told me she got the job, the release to step down came at the same time. Neither of us said a word about it at that point, that came later. But in "me", I felt the enablement to finally let go of our 9 year tenure. And I was absolutely fine with it. Sometimes what we're looking for as evidence to give us security to accept our own decisions were right, it isn't always manifesting in the way we expect it to. But you had already stated that what you felt God had spoken to you, your child affirmed it without even knowing what was being affirmed. Restlessness isn't in the decision you made, it's in you not being able to accept it was indeed God's word "in" you coming forth. As Jesus would say . . ."Peace . . .be still."

Ebot76


Thank to you all for the insight and sharing of experiences. It's funny how sometimes I think I'm the only crazy person who has these struggles. It's comforting to know others have had the same experiences. And come through them.
I totally get what you are saying about looking for Him. Tonight, on Facebook, of all things, someone repeated bible verse that I hadnt known up until a couple months ago. I think this was Him, just more subtle than before. Of all the thousands of verses that I don't know... This one was repeated.
The verse is Luke 6:43
43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Thanks again and I'll pray now as you've advised.

cross-eyed

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Ha! Another reference to men being as trees . . .forgot about that one. Whatdya know about that! tongue

cross-eyed

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I love the original question that is posed here . . . Does God speak to you when you're in a place of ignorance and sin . . . Is that not ALWAYS the case? Is this not the realm "of" sin and death? Are we not ALWAYS lacking understanding to his infinite ways? It's much like when God called Abraham as righteous "before" he was righteous. When he speaks to us, it isn't just to raise our awareness, or equip us with knowledge . . .it's to purge us from our ignorance and heal our most inward parts.

In a word . . . YES!

todosan


Does God speak to you when you are in sin?

Hmmmmm… so when would you NOT be in sin? I mean really. I am trying to think of my best day and it is still rather dark along the edges. …..but yea it had a bright shiny center!!!

So this is always one of like three or four really doctrinally challenging questions that come up when God opens a person to the cold hard facts that He exists, you are loved, and there is now a grand undiscovered purpose in front of you that forever you will be uncovering with kid-like anticipation that you are indeed among the people of whom it is said:

Psalm 37:11
But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Alas, it is impossible for an all-powerful God, dressed in the white garb of righteousness, swinging tassels, exuding importance, to acknowledge, let alone speak to, a lowly servant of mediocre importance, who has been relegated to the trash heap of complacency, stuck in the repetitive and competing cycles of career and homemaking. ….. or maybe it isn’t impossible.
I have a picture of my parents who were getting married on October 12, 1968. Dad had left the church and was speeding down the highway when his buddies went and cut him off. They told him he was going to have to marry this woman for responsibility’s sake. In the same picture album, is me getting baptized in my white blanket of righteousness provide by the Lutheran. From that point on, at my mother’s insistence, I was raised in a Christian home so that she could be sure my soul would be saved, and delivered from my father. There was never a time in my life that I was not covered by the image of the cross…. You know…. The wooden one in the front of every mainline denominational church. I thought it all meaningful until I was old enough to think on my own. Then, based on knowledge I had gotten from the wrong tree, I decided that all my Christian life was not nearly as fun as sin.

Sin is fun as hell. ( I think that is a great quote, by the way.)

When I decided this, I can distinctly remember the day. Mom was yelling at me in the kitchen and I was a good apple gone bad. I pretty much had made my first life changing decision to live not LIKE HER. That was 1989.

Then in 1997, I met a lady who taught us how to hear God. This was possibly the most unbelievable life changing experience that a person could have. I wrestled with the idea that God would speak to me while I was doing all the things I was doing. Keep in mind I have been saved since 1970, when I was sprinkled….uh um. In 1973, I could repeat the Christmas story, and in 1980, I believed that the whole cross story was true indeed. (You know, I was set up for failure, wasn’t I?) This was the necessary code of requirements for entry into eternal bliss and happiness, located up there somewhere in the clouds, where there was no AC/DC and certainly no swearing or tough guys to contend with.

THEN GOD….

Then God spoke to me for real in 1997.

Then God baptized me in the spirit.

Then God started saying things that was a little weird.

Then God started backing up what He was saying.

Then God started saying things that came true days later.

Then God started saying, “I love you”.

Then God started saying things that was not lined up with what they were saying in church.

Then God started causing all the pieces to come together.

Then God let me fall from trying to be strong on my own.

Then God spoke to me WHEN I was making mistakes, because I knew His voice from before.

Then God was righteous, when it was obvious that I was not righteous.

Then God said, “to be righteous, you should accept My righteousness instead of your own.”

Then God would do nothing to support my own efforts.

Then God made me successful without my help!

Then God took away my reputation.

Then God tossed me on the trash heap of obscurity.

Then God said, “I want you to overcome.”

If you go through all that, it will not matter what sin is in your life. God needs to speak to you to do what He wants according to His plan, and it isn’t going to matter where your head is at… It matters where your heart is, because that is the only thing that he measures. In Christ, he stopped measuring sin long ago, because that was the issue that DID separate. And now it cannot separate because the chasm is crossed not by what you do, but by who He is when He is in you, on you, and working through you.

Let us be singular. There are no exceptions. He is always broadcasting; we just may need to turn the radio on. Putting the daily failures before Him in prayer just makes the signal stronger.

LindaY


This is what I call "walking through the book". He's on every page, there with us, never failing, we just follow Him, even as evening always follows daylight. Smile

Ebot76


Good points from you all....I guess it is really a stupid question (yeah, yeah, I know there are no stupid questions, but if there was one, you could be sure I'd ask it.)
I meant, "Big" sin, you know the ones that are a big deal....(kidding) I know they are all equal sins in his eyes, and I know I'm always ignorant....I guess I just temporarily forgot when I asked this question.

Still its good to hear the evolution of the "hearing", the different ways of hearing, etc. I guess if we always heard in the same way, we'd probably get complacent...(at least I probably would.)

Ecclesiastes 3
New International Version (NIV)
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Have a great day everyone!

cross-eyed

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yeah, I don't think it's ever a question of whether God speaks and what condition must we be in for him to do so. I think he speaks to us ALL the time. But our condition will often affect our ability to hear the "sound" of his voice and see the clarity of his truth.

Our eyes are the windows . . .if our eyes get dirtied up, then our ability to see life is affected by our dirt. Our focus turns from hungering after what is spiritual to being bound by what is natural.

Discerning the difference between the sound of truth and freedom and the "noise" of religion is key.

todosan


I think this is one of the most profound subjects out there. If you think about it, the essence of the cross is the reason why God can speak to us in spite of our involvement in sin. If we are saved up out of sin, then chances are that we are in sin when God starts to work in us.

If we make rules around this, then we quickly digress into religion. Our right standing with God is never compromised by what we do, but by our minds and who we recon ourselves to be.

Often people preach that we need a Savior because we have sinned. At that time we are told that it is what He did that saves us, and there is nothing we can do to earn it. Then as quick as we are ushered into the Kingdom, the very same person will warn against sin because it can cut us off from God and his glorious eternity. …. What ?!!?? We are saved by what He did, but we are condemned by what we do? Really?

Truth is, that we are neither saved nor condemned by what we do. We merely recognize who we are in by our actions. We know the root if we measure the fruit.

Years ago, God settled this for us. It is found in Romans 7.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

This was so cool. Sin comes forth from living under the requirements and commandments of the law and believing it is a spiritual benefit unto righteousness. The notion that we are justified in any manner by what we do is to return to the law as a means to be saved. What a slap in the face of Jesus!

We began to identify in our lives much lawful living. I began to have my mind seared by the Spirit. Every time I thought my standing with God depended on my actions, I was severely checked. Then when I realized that NOTHING was going to elevate me into His good graces except the Lord Himself, I began to rest and to trust. I became quite lawless (another ditch on the other side of the road) only to discover that Jesus was there too, bringing me back to center. The law was good because it showed me who He really was in a very confused world, and you become what you look at. Why not look upon Him?

Point is that all this happens in the midst of the journey. The feeling of being separate or broken is the result of realizing that you have transgressed the law. In Christ, the transgression is remitted. In Adam, the transgression is condemned. The only way you can feel condemned or separate is if your mind is thinking like the wrong example. Like Nathan said, the Lord is always speaking, do we have out Adam filter on or our Christ filter? The first one is a lot like deafness.



A.R.T.I.C

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Todd,

That was amazing, I love it!! You know every once and a while someone will say something that you just want to keep with you forever, and this was it for me today, I call them keepers. I have a whole folder on my desktop of keepers from all of you.

Then as quick as we are ushered into the Kingdom, the very same person will warn against sin because it can cut us off from God and his glorious eternity. …. What ?!!?? We are saved by what He did, but we are condemned by what we do? Really?

Truth is, that we are neither saved nor condemned by what we do. We merely recognize who we are in by our actions. We know the root if we measure the fruit.


That was worth repeating, thank you..... "Keeper"!!!

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

cross-eyed

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Doesn't that just start freeing up our spirit once our heads begin to realize that!?! I think that's what Jesus was talking about when he said "He who the Son sets free, is free indeed." When you realize that regardless of what ditch your in, love can still reach you and lead you out. Freedom not to do whatever "you" want to do, but freedom from the bondage of the ditch you just got out of. And once you're out, you're disabled to judge others still in their ditch . . .Now therefore there is no condemnation . . . Maybe I should change my name from cross-eyed to "ditchless"!!!

Once we breach the threshold of true freedom, our attention no longer focuses on judgment of ourselves or others. It just automatically puts you in a state of Judah (praise). It's kinda hard to be judgmental while you're in a state of praise at the same time.

todosan


Nathan, can I offer a few suggestions for your new name?

I have a secret. To be set free from judgement is a marvelous thing. I am sure it would blow a few doctrines out of the water... SHould we try?

cross-eyed

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Nathan, can I offer a few suggestions for your new name?

Now you're just freakin' me out. affraid

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Going back to what all have been saying about ignorance (the lack of understanding)

Understanding is the first free gift given to us by the Father to save us from "ignorance".

Forgiveness is the second free gift given to us by the Father to save us from "the penalty of sin" (death, separation from the Father)

Understanding forgiveness is the combination of both gifts that saves us from "sin itself" (from sinning against the Father and from sinning against others)

It is our participation in understanding forgiveness that "the word (forgiveness) becomes flesh", and the flesh now participates in bringing life (forgiveness) to others. Because, the message of the cross (forgiveness) is foolishness to those who are perishing.

The stumbling block for all unbelievers is the forgiveness of all the sin of all the sinners. (Unbelievers being defined as those who do not believe in the grace (mercy) of the Father.)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

A.R.T.I.C

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There's another Keeper to my folder.
I really like this Jugghead, Understanding and forgiveness, WOW, you know what, I think that this is a Word in due season for us.

And I for one receive it with open arms.

Thank you for sharing that.

Blessings

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

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jugghead wrote:Understanding is the first free gift given to us by the Father to save us from "ignorance".

Forgiveness is the second free gift given to us by the Father to save us from "the penalty of sin" (death, separation from the Father)

Understanding forgiveness is the combination of both gifts that saves us from "sin itself" (from sinning against the Father and from sinning against others)

It is our participation in understanding forgiveness that "the word (forgiveness) becomes flesh", and the flesh now participates in bringing life (forgiveness) to others. Because, the message of the cross (forgiveness) is foolishness to those who are perishing.

I've heard the first coming of Christ described as the sacrifice which covers over our sins, "making that which is as if it were not," and His second coming being the work which actually separates us from our sins "as far as the east is from the west." This shines a whole new light on the idea!

Is Jesus coming or are We here already? Are we seeking a critical mass for transformation of the world, or is it all in our own walk where we see His fruit manifest? I feel a knowing coming on here. Very Happy

cross-eyed

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I'd answer that with a great big YUP!!!

Yes, Jesus HAS come . . .IS come within us and WILL BE coming as he matures us into the completeness of his nature in every aspect of our lives. Forgiving one another beyond all logic and reason. Unconditional love and grace that flows from the throne into us, through us and into others. We're merely spiritual conduit.

Yes, the sons of God are here already. I believe God has been preparing previous generations to "prepare the way" for such a time as this and "we" . . .THIS generation is the recipient of our ancestors revelational vision . . .a double portion of the manna of heaven has been sent in the six day, our ancestors before us who've experienced unimaginable and unexplainable things have passed their mantles on to this generation where now, in this 7th Day of our existence, all that is required from us is to enter into the REST of that which has been finished. Easy to say, hard to do.

I often liken this to an old u-tube video . . .actually, it might have first been on America's Funniest Videos . . .they have a small dog swimming in the water and someone lifts the dog up and even though they're holding the dog out of water, his legs are still paddling up a storm.

Even though the veil was torn from top (our mind) to bottom (our walk), they continued on going through the motion because that's just the reflexive nature of men. And now, the hardest thing for today's Christians to do is to let go of everything that got them here . . .they've been swimming for so long, when the ascending experience comes to them, they reflexively continue paddling through doctrine and philosophies. We quote "Come unto me, I will give you REST . ." but we can't fathom what that really means . . .so we file it in the "after you leave this earth" file. The promise Jesus gave to Peter about having the keys of authority were not for after Peter died a natural death . . .it was because Peter was already experiencing a carnal death.

Are we seeking a critical mass for transformation of the world, or is it all in our own walk where we see His fruit manifest?

Yes and yes again!! I am completely convinced EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus is truly our Lord and Savior . . .I don't care "what" the muslims are doing in my natural realm of reasoning. And yes, it IS all in our own walk . . .that's what leads to every knee bowing and tongue confessing. This is not a message the masses will grasp.

You see a struggling with many on just an individual level, forget the mega churches hearing and receiving it. It births from individual intimacy with the Father and it is planted in one heart at a time through relationship with one another. Relationship over religion. Again, easy to say, not so easy to "do". Smile

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I can't "do" it.

I . . . MUST . . . SURRENDER!

cross-eyed

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Bingo!!

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cross-eyed wrote:Are we seeking a critical mass for transformation of the world, or is it all in our own walk where we see His fruit manifest?

Yes and yes again!! I am completely convinced EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus is truly our Lord and Savior . . .I don't care "what" the muslims are doing in my natural realm of reasoning. And yes, it IS all in our own walk . . .that's what leads to every knee bowing and tongue confessing. This is not a message the masses will grasp.

You see a struggling with many on just an individual level, forget the mega churches hearing and receiving it. It births from individual intimacy with the Father and it is planted in one heart at a time through relationship with one another. Relationship over religion. Again, easy to say, not so easy to "do". Smile

Is this something like you have envisioned?

A.R.T.I.C

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Where in the world did you find that David?
I love it!!! What a Graphic.

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