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In Heaven There is no Beer

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26 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:39 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Thanks guys,

What awesome insights and an what Glorious hope we have in Him, to be no longer bound by the flesh, what a thought. Truly freedom is in the Spirit. I know we all come out from God, and we will all return no doubt. I guess this existence before we were made manifest came up during bible study last Sat. that's where it started, and I used to fully believe the same I don't know when or why it changed but when I went to answer, I couldn't explain what kind of form we were in, other than the foreknowledge of God. Nevertheless, we know that when He does appear we shall be like Him, His attributes, and to me that's more important than form, Amen?

Love you guys soooooo much!!! Very Happy
Blessings

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27 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:19 pm

cross-eyed

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Just a thought, but I personally think our spirits are lights . . .colored with personality of our spiritual nature, not carnal . . .but as the stars illuminate the heavens in the natural, they are type and shadow of godly stars illuminating the darkness (without understanding) in this realm. But as natural reflects spiritual, we are illuminators in both realms, be it in the natural, where our lives bring life to those around us . . .or be it in the spiritual realm . . as Jesus revealed to the remnant discipleship on the mount of transfiguration, he merely transformed into his glorified state . . .his heavenly being revealed to natural eyes . . .he became light. So are we . . .be it in these temporary bodies of flesh, or after we cross over to the other side . . .we are light. Pretty awesome and . . .mind bending if you think about it for any length of time. Very Happy

28 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:07 am

Long2JC

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If our spirits are light and we are illuminators in both realms, then it might make sense that your prayers and worship also revert to different colors of light as they rise before the Throne.

Can you imagine the indescribable beauty of all of the different hues and shades of pure color would look like from the different words and sounds rising up in different languages?

Can you imagine how beautiful you look to the Father as He sees you as light and not marked with the attributes of our natural bodies?
Can you feel the warmth of the colors of Blue and Green as He wraps His arms around you and pulls you into His embrace?
Can you feel the energizing of the colors of Red and Yellow as He gives you provision to head out into this world?
Can you feel the color of Silver as the Holy Spirit surrounds you as the wind?
Can you feel the secureness of Black as He hides you from your enemies in the recesses of His wings?
Can you feel the color of Purple as He wraps you in cloak of Royalty?
Can you see the color of refined Gold as He gently purifies you so pure in His sight that you can see through the color as if it is transparent?

29 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:21 am

LindaY


This is kinda what I've been thinking about here lately. There are some who believe we existed before The foundation of the World, mainly because of statements like..."We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the World". I had talked a little bit about it with someone, but if we did, what was we? What kind of state was we in?


Maybe we should be asking "when exactly was the foundation of the world". It is not even mentioned at all in scripture until 2 Samuel. It speaks of foundation of other things but, when it speaks of "foundation of the world" it's not until 2 Samuel. Maybe this is where the confusion comes in?

It's a song of David and begins like this:
2 Sam 2:1 ¶ And David spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD had delivered him out of the hand of all his enemies, and out of the hand of Saul:
2 ¶ And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
4 I will call on the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


I didn't post the entire chapter but, then it goes on to say:

2 Sam 2:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.


Just something to think about. I began looking in Genesis for this but, I was assuming it was there I would find it. It was surprising to find it in 2 Samuel. Just something to think about?

30 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:51 am

A.R.T.I.C

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cross-eyed wrote:Just a thought, but I personally think our spirits are lights . . .colored with personality of our spiritual nature, not carnal . . .but as the stars illuminate the heavens in the natural, they are type and shadow of godly stars illuminating the darkness (without understanding) in this realm. But as natural reflects spiritual, we are illuminators in both realms, be it in the natural, where our lives bring life to those around us . . .or be it in the spiritual realm . . as Jesus revealed to the remnant discipleship on the mount of transfiguration, he merely transformed into his glorified state . . .his heavenly being revealed to natural eyes . . .he became light. So are we . . .be it in these temporary bodies of flesh, or after we cross over to the other side . . .we are light. Pretty awesome and . . .mind bending if you think about it for any length of time. Very Happy

Nathan, I really like this, and I can see this too.
We are seated in the Heavenlies in Christ. We have also been translated from the kingdom of Darkness into The Kingdom of His dear Son.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Notice this was the "Fourth" Day/4000,yrs.? The Day when Christ was made manifest in the flesh.

John, Beautiful.
Linda, that's interesting I never noticed that before, thanks for the find.

Blessings

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31 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:30 pm

LindaY


I'm not saying I totally understand it but, it was something that was brought to my attention. confused It's also a different meaning from "earth" in Strong's definition. Not that I completely feel Strong's is always correct because there are words I've found in the Greek that are not given the true meaning of what the word really means by the use of other words that are the same (from the root). Strong's is still a man's interpretation and although it's helped, it's not always accurate (at least from what I've found in a few places).

32 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:59 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Yep, I've found this out too.

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33 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:47 pm

cross-eyed

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Long2JC wrote:If our spirits are light and we are illuminators in both realms, then it might make sense that your prayers and worship also revert to different colors of light as they rise before the Throne.

Can you imagine the indescribable beauty of all of the different hues and shades of pure color would look like from the different words and sounds rising up in different languages?

Can you imagine how beautiful you look to the Father as He sees you as light and not marked with the attributes of our natural bodies?
Can you feel the warmth of the colors of Blue and Green as He wraps His arms around you and pulls you into His embrace?
Can you feel the energizing of the colors of Red and Yellow as He gives you provision to head out into this world?
Can you feel the color of Silver as the Holy Spirit surrounds you as the wind?
Can you feel the secureness of Black as He hides you from your enemies in the recesses of His wings?
Can you feel the color of Purple as He wraps you in cloak of Royalty?
Can you see the color of refined Gold as He gently purifies you so pure in His sight that you can see through the color as if it is transparent?

That really captures the entire essence of it, doesn't it? So beautifully put John . . . that's just a "wow" moment for me.

34 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:51 pm

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LindaY wrote:Maybe we should be asking "when exactly was the foundation of the world". It is not even mentioned at all in scripture until 2 Samuel. It speaks of foundation of other things but, when it speaks of "foundation of the world" it's not until 2 Samuel. Maybe this is where the confusion comes in?

It's a song of David and begins like this:
2 Sam 2:1 ¶ And David spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD had delivered him out of the hand of all his enemies, and out of the hand of Saul:
2 ¶ And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
4 I will call on the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


I didn't post the entire chapter but, then it goes on to say:

2 Sam 2:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.


Just something to think about. I began looking in Genesis for this but, I was assuming it was there I would find it. It was surprising to find it in 2 Samuel. Just something to think about?

When I read this, it struck me that the word foundation(s) had two distinct but related meanings in these two instances. When you say we were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world, it seems to speak of a forming, an establishing. In the second instance from 2 Samuel, the foundations seems to be a physical feature of the earth uncovered along with the sea channels by the Lord's breath.

This got me to thinking that along with the difference between a time of foundation and the physical foundations holding up the earth, might there also be a significant difference between the words "earth" and "world." It turns out that there is. I did a word search through the various translations that I like studying, and they were in consistent agreement concerning the use of the words "foundation," "foundations," "earth," and "world" so I was able to use the Strong's reference from the KJV. Here's the raw data. You can draw conclusions if you like, as I do tend to suck at that.

I believe you will see some patterns here.

Foundations of the earth
H776
ארץ
'erets
eh'-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

(Job 38:4) "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
H3245
יסד
yâsad
yaw-sad'
A primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively); intensively to found; reflexively to sit down together, that is, settle, consult: - appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the, lay for a) found (-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.

(Psa 82:5) They do not know, nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
H4146
מסדה מוסדה
môsâdâh môsâdâh
mo-saw-daw', mo-saw-daw'
Feminine of H4144; a foundation: - foundation.

(Psa 104:5) You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever,
H4349
מכון
mâkôn
maw-kone'
From H3559; properly a fixture, that is, a basis; generally a place, especially as an abode: - foundation, habitation, (dwelling-, settled) place.

(Pro 8:29) When He assigned to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
H4146
(Isa 24:18) And it shall be That he who flees from the noise of the fear Shall fall into the pit, And he who comes up from the midst of the pit Shall be caught in the snare; For the windows from on high are open, And the foundations of the earth are shaken.
H4146
(Isa 40:21) Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
H4480
מנּי מנּי מן
min minnı̂y minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.

(Isa 51:13) And you forget the LORD your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens And laid the foundations of the earth; You have feared continually every day Because of the fury of the oppressor, When he has prepared to destroy. And where is the fury of the oppressor?
H3245
(Isa 51:16) And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You are My people.' "
H3245
(Mic 6:2) Hear, O you mountains, the LORD's complaint, And you strong foundations of the earth; For the LORD has a complaint against His people, And He will contend with Israel.
H4146


Foundations of the world
H8398
תּבל
têbêl
tay-bale'
From H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension the globe; by implication its inhabitants; specifically a particular land, as Babylonia or Palestine: - habitable part, world.

(2Sa 22:16) Then the channels of the sea were seen, The foundations of the world were uncovered, At the rebuke of the LORD, At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.
H4146
(Psa 18:15) Then the channels of the sea were seen, The foundations of the world were uncovered At Your rebuke, O LORD, At the blast of the breath of Your nostrils.
H4146


Foundation of the earth
H776
G1093
γῆ

ghay
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.

(Psa 102:25) Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
H4146
(Isa 48:13) Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.
H3245
(Zec 12:1) The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
H3245
(Heb 1:10) And: "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORK OF YOUR HANDS.
G2311
θεμελιόω
themelioō
them-el-ee-o'-o
From G2310; to lay a basis for, that is, (literally) erect, or (figuratively) consolidate: - (lay the) found (-ation), ground, settle.


Foundation of the world
G2889
κόσμος
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

(Mat 13:35) that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS KEPT SECRET FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."
G2602
καταβολή
katabolē
kat-ab-ol-ay'
From G2598; a deposition, that is, founding; figuratively conception: - conceive, foundation.

(Mat 25:34) Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
G2602
(Luk 11:50) that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
G2602
(Joh 17:24) "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
G2602
(Eph 1:4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
G2602
(Heb 4:3) For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "SO I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
G2602
(Heb 9:26) He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
G2602
(1Pe 1:20) He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
G2602
(Rev 13:Cool All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
G2602
(Rev 17:Cool The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
G2602



Last edited by DavidHarreld on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : color improves clarity)

35 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:26 pm

LindaY


might there also be a significant difference between the words "earth" and "world."


Hi David,
That's what I was trying to point out. Thanks for doing a more advanced search for this. Maybe I wasn't being very clear in what I meant. Smile

36 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Not in a study I did, but what was revealed (of course in my understanding so far) the earth may be describing the firmness on which we walk, and the world is describing the inhabitants that walk on the firmness.

Something that I have come to understand is, when God said, "Let there be light" I see it as "let there be understanding" the foundation of understanding is light and darkness, the purpose of darkness is to see, have an understanding of the darkness so we know that light is different than darkness.

When God separated the light from the darkness, he separated the knowledge of good and evil, what is righteous and what is unrighteous. It is by understanding both, bringing them both into the ark of understanding (ourselves) that we are now able to increase (re-multiply) our understanding to again bring life (the understanding of forgiveness) to the world.

My two cents



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

37 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:00 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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And well worth it too. Very Happy

Blessings

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38 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:28 pm

cross-eyed

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Thoroughly enjoyed that as well Jugghead!!! I've never seen it put that way before. Animals entering two by two signifying the two trees . . .and then in preparation, the ark was applied with . . .what's the King James word for tar? It literally means "atonement" . .. is it thatch? I can't remember off hand. But I can see the picture clearly! Great word bro!!

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