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In Heaven There is no Beer

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1 In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:34 am

todosan


...that's why we drink it here...

and so the song goes...I was about 5 years old when my grandmother bought me that single on a 45 rpm record. I wasn't really brought up with the best guidance....but grandma didn't usually drink beer either. ....She drank whiskey. LOL

Ironically, the song sounds a lot like a party in the background. I bet heaven is party like without the hangover.

So thinking about what heaven must really be like... I have a question.

What are the three heavens, where are they, and can anybody discuss this with clarity? It came up in last night's house church and I need some insight...

2 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:41 am

LindaY


todosan wrote:...that's why we drink it here...

and so the song goes...I was about 5 years old when my grandmother bought me that single on a 45 rpm record. I wasn't really brought up with the best guidance....but grandma didn't usually drink beer either. ....She drank whiskey. LOL

Ironically, the song sounds a lot like a party in the background. I bet heaven is party like without the hangover.

So thinking about what heaven must really be like... I have a question.

What are the three heavens, where are they, and can anybody discuss this with clarity? It came up in last night's house church and I need some insight...

I don't know that I have any clarity to offer but, if you're speaking "literally" they probably had some beer in heaven at one point on the space ship from NASA or on the space station. Smile

But, if you're speaking of the heavenly places, I see it as where Adam and Eve were in the garden walking with God and communing with Him in the "cool" (spiritual places) of the day. The three heavens are what the tabernacles represent. The 3rd heaven would be in the Holy of Holies place in a place of intimacy with God. I am not sure what the upper room was where the feast was held before the crucifixion but, it seems that it's one of those heavenly rooms they were when Jesus was betrayed.

Perhaps, I do not see it correctly. But, for now that's where I see them to be.

3 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:56 am

todosan


Well that would be my first guess for sure. Pretty much exactly, but I don't get that confirmation..I am thinking there is much more here...

4 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:12 pm

Guest


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todosan wrote:
What are the three heavens, where are they, and can anybody discuss this with clarity? It came up in last night's house church and I need some insight...

Three heavens? I remember a reference to a "third heaven" but nothing saying there was not a fourth, fifth, etc. Physicist I think now have identified 11 dimensions or thereabouts. Could these be levels of heaven? Dimensions would be descriptors of physical "reality" rather than the physical reality itself. It is a mathematical/metaphysical language for communicating an idea, rather than the idea itself. It is as if "dimensions" are an intermediator concept for us between Truth and experience.

On the beer issue.... I believe that Christ has been fully in heaven all along, and He refused the gall (opium) at a time when most of us could have really used it. Nuff said?

5 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:39 pm

LindaY


David,
What do you mean by this?

On the beer issue.... I believe that Christ has been fully in heaven all along, and He refused the gall (opium) at a time when most of us could have really used it. Nuff said?

6 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:46 pm

Guest


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LindaY wrote:David,
What do you mean by this?

On the beer issue.... I believe that Christ has been fully in heaven all along, and He refused the gall (opium) at a time when most of us could have really used it. Nuff said?

Thinking that if we want to be more like Him, then we should just go ahead and enjoy the full experience without anesthetic like He did. Just throwing it out there. Anyone have a different take?

7 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:10 pm

LindaY


DavidHarreld wrote:
LindaY wrote:David,
What do you mean by this?

On the beer issue.... I believe that Christ has been fully in heaven all along, and He refused the gall (opium) at a time when most of us could have really used it. Nuff said?

Thinking that if we want to be more like Him, then we should just go ahead and enjoy the full experience without anesthetic like He did. Just throwing it out there. Anyone have a different take?

Ok, yeah, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you. At least, I think I am. Right now, I'm very frustrated but, am not enjoying the frustration.

8 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:52 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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I see it pretty much the same as Linda, according to the Pattern of The Tabernacle.

First Heaven---Outer Court----The Last Supper/Covenant
Second Heaven---Holy Place----The Upper Room/Pentecost
Third Heaven---Most Holy Place---The Place in God where we are seated with Christ/Tabernacles

As the First Heaven, Represents the Sacrificing of The Lamb, Blood for Blood, Exchange of Life for Life, we come into Covenant with Him. He is God to us in this place.

The Second Heaven, is all about Ministry and tending too the things of God that they slip not, learning also how to give an answer to those who ask us for the hope that is within us. This is about Discipleship and Him taking captivity captive, and giving gifts unto men, for this purpose. He is The Son in this Place to us.

The Third Heaven, I believe in this place, is where true Relationship is birthed in us, and as it is, The Mysteries of God are Unveiled within us, these are the things that are not lawful for a man to speak of, but only the Spirit Himself.
We begin to understand what is our inheritance in the saints, that we were chosen for purpose, and that all He is and all He has is also ours. He has now become, in this place "OUR FATHER".

Blessings

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9 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:13 pm

Guest


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LindaY wrote:Ok, yeah, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you. At least, I think I am. Right now, I'm very frustrated but, am not enjoying the frustration.

Linda, the Lord forced my hand on that one about 51 weeks ago, after being a drug and alcohol adherent for most of my life. I don't think I would have quit on my own. In fact my dad came by to see me a couple months prior to impress upon me the point that I needed to stop drinking. I told him, "Dad, I've been drinking for 38 years, and it will probably kill me." That didn't give him any warm fuzzies, I'm sure.

How did the Lord help me with this? He let me drink. Drink as much as I wanted. He let me lose my head. Not to Him but to the spirits. He let me try to control a situation that was by all rights His to control. He let me get arrested (yoke of iron). He put it on my heart to make my history with alcohol transparent to the judge. He gave me a judge that was sympathetic to drunks. He let me commit to the judge that I wouldn't drink again and thus avoid a felony in favor of misdemeanor charges. He frustrated my efforts to secure entry into an electronic monitoring program so I could keep my job. He let me go to jail for 40 days. He stayed with me the entire time I was there. He has remained with me, and no, I have not been tempted to anesthetize my self since. My last drink was the day I was first arrested: 9/7/11. It was the morning of the 10th, after I bailed out, that Todd shared with me that little bit of wisdom a friend had shared with him: "The Lord will take us the easiest way we'll go." That's a good one, and I pray for all of my brothers and sisters that they be winnowed like barley by the wind of His Spirit.

10 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:50 pm

LindaY


DavidHarreld wrote:
LindaY wrote:Ok, yeah, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you. At least, I think I am. Right now, I'm very frustrated but, am not enjoying the frustration.

Linda, the Lord forced my hand on that one about 51 weeks ago, after being a drug and alcohol adherent for most of my life. I don't think I would have quit on my own. In fact my dad came by to see me a couple months prior to impress upon me the point that I needed to stop drinking. I told him, "Dad, I've been drinking for 38 years, and it will probably kill me." That didn't give him any warm fuzzies, I'm sure.

How did the Lord help me with this? He let me drink. Drink as much as I wanted. He let me lose my head. Not to Him but to the spirits. He let me try to control a situation that was by all rights His to control. He let me get arrested (yoke of iron). He put it on my heart to make my history with alcohol transparent to the judge. He gave me a judge that was sympathetic to drunks. He let me commit to the judge that I wouldn't drink again and thus avoid a felony in favor of misdemeanor charges. He frustrated my efforts to secure entry into an electronic monitoring program so I could keep my job. He let me go to jail for 40 days. He stayed with me the entire time I was there. He has remained with me, and no, I have not been tempted to anesthetize my self since. My last drink was the day I was first arrested: 9/7/11. It was the morning of the 10th, after I bailed out, that Todd shared with me that little bit of wisdom a friend had shared with him: "The Lord will take us the easiest way we'll go." That's a good one, and I pray for all of my brothers and sisters that they be winnowed like barley by the wind of His Spirit.

David,
Bless you for sharing the intimacy of this walk so openly. I have a son that, as I write this, has been and is still in the place you have come from. For now, I am in a quiet place, listening. He is faithful and it is my belief that as David wrote in Psalms: "I sought the Lord and he heard me and delivered me from ALL of my fears" that He is delivering me from fear. In fact, in this quiet place with Him, it has helped to open my understanding of that whole chapter in Psalms in a way I had never seen before. He knows what we have need of even before we ask or even know what we should ask for. Nothing you or anyone else has said here brought on my frustrations yesterday. I hope that's not why things became so quiet here in the forum.

In this quietness, and taking it before Him, waiting for my understanding of Him to be revealed to me is where I now am finding some rest. I knew this but, at the same time, had to be reminded of it. While in this place, He has helped me understand more than what I did yesterday. Bless you David. I am not able to speak any more than that for now but, I do understand.

LindaY



Last edited by LindaY on Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:31 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I think I repeated some things here.)

11 In Heaven There is no Beer on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:20 am

Hibbs


When I was a child, I thought as a child. Is this not the first heaven? Gimme this, change my diaper, you don't know how that makes me feel, I'm not getting enough attention here. In Jesus case, He was teaching in the temple and not accompanying His parents: "Don't you know I must be about my father's business." The sun revolves around our earth and we are the center of that heaven.

Adolescence comes and we enter the realm of the mid-heaven. We come to realize that life is not all about us and we struggle between positions. We are double-minded...looking up into the spirit at times, but more often looking at circumstances. We are gradually coming to realize that there are things assailing our thoughts and we are regularly misunderstood. It is at this level that we encounter warfare that we didn't even know existed in the first heaven. We are introduced to temptation and maybe take our first drink or smoke our first joint or pop a pill or in some other manner, encounter something that impacts on our perspective of life. We try to accommodate both realms and become more concerned with how we look and what others think...losing the simplicity of childhood in the process. We sometimes sail too close to an imploding star and get sucked into a black hole...sometimes never to recover. This heaven is filled with peril and phillistines and midianites and ambushes and deception. Rebellion is one of the watchwords...rebellion toward authority and rebellion toward God. We think we are the agents of our own destiny.

The third heaven may not have any beer but it has wine aplenty...it will have to wait to be revisited, however, since the first heaven calls. Still a servant first?

12 In Heaven There is no Beer on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:27 am

Hibbs


Daniel was shown things that were not to be revealed and to seal up the vision for an appointed time. He, being in the time before Christ, would not be allowed to disclose the truth of the third heaven. He was, however, granted an understanding of the mid-heaven and the battles that raged in that realm. Even though his prayer was heard from the first day, it took 21 days for the answer from heaven to reach him. To some this means to penetrate his consciousness and that is probably a pretty good perspective on what was happening. Heaven's dimension had to break through to his earth.

Paul was caught up into the third heaven and shown things that were not lawful to speak about. At the same time, his writing gives glimpses into that realm and are used by the Spirit to show us mysteries that were not seen during earlier stages of history.

John, is carried by the Spirit into that glorious day of the Lord and has a vision of the realm that I believe Daniel and Paul had seen but could not address. He is given the vision in words that require the Spirit to interpret to out heart but it is still clear that the sea around the throne is like glass. Instead of storm tossed humanity, we see perfect order and no chaos or confusion. Babylon is nowhere to be found and the bow of the covenant is emblazoned around the throne. The wine of this place is that wonderful wine that has been saved for last. Is it my imagination or is the cork out and the wine resting, waiting to be poured?

13 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:13 am

Guest


Guest
Hibbs wrote:Is it my imagination or is the cork out and the wine resting, waiting to be poured?

I pray that this is not a vain imagination!

Psa 37:4 Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

What can this mean, other than that our hearts hold the desires which He has planted there Himself?

14 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:28 pm

LindaY


Mark wrote:

Babylon is nowhere to be found and the bow of the covenant is emblazoned around the throne.


We've had a lot of rain here lately. One thing I've seen on two occasions that I have never seen in my life was 2 rainbows in the sky even in the midst of the clouds, one on top of the other. I took pictures of them because it was either something I had never noticed before and I've become more aware of the things around me or this is something that's new. Has anyone ever noticed this before?

15 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:45 pm

Guest


Guest
LindaY wrote:We've had a lot of rain here lately. One thing I've seen on two occasions that I have never seen in my life was 2 rainbows in the sky even in the midst of the clouds, one on top of the other. I took pictures of them because it was either something I had never noticed before and I've become more aware of the things around me or this is something that's new. Has anyone ever noticed this before?

Ahhh, rain! We've been missing that out here.

I wish I could search these forums, I wanted to go back to where someone made mention of the rainbow and its seven primary colors. A double rainbow is indeed beautiful! In the ones I have seen, the first rainbow has been exceptionally intense! Here is a bit about rainbows along with some pictures of 'doubles'. It is more of a scientific treatise, and although the physics do speak to us about our Creator, I seem to enjoy the spiritual symbolism a lot more when I can wrap my mind around it.

16 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Hibbs


Enjoy...It is a double witness of the promise and covenant of God.

17 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:54 pm

LindaY


Hibbs wrote:Enjoy...It is a double witness of the promise and covenant of God.

Aaaah! That's encouraging! Bless you!

18 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:57 pm

cross-eyed

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check out the poems and songs thread . . . I'd written a worship song entitled "Rainbow" . . . seems to fit this conversation perfectly.

19 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:11 pm

Long2JC

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DavidHarreld wrote:
LindaY wrote:David,
What do you mean by this?

On the beer issue.... I believe that Christ has been fully in heaven all along, and He refused the gall (opium) at a time when most of us could have really used it. Nuff said?

Thinking that if we want to be more like Him, then we should just go ahead and enjoy the full experience without anesthetic like He did. Just throwing it out there. Anyone have a different take?

I'm a little late on this thread.

Beer affects the chemicals and cells in the brain, heaven affects the spirit.

I sometimes find our referencing the different dimensions interesting.

I think there is only one dimension and that is Gods dimension. Our minds process requires us to define something that we do not readily comprehend as something that comes from a different place, so we create a definition that helps us understand what we are referring to.

It is difficult if not impossible to comprehend living as a spiritual being and not one that has the current boundaries of the mind and physical body. But we can experience its freedom when we become lost in the spirit even though it might be brief.

The separation of dimensions by the identifying them by their different characteristics kind of get lost in the process of quantum physics.

But, alas we do have to find a way to communicate in the state that we find ourselves and the identifying of different dimensions seems to work pretty well.

20 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:50 pm

klm4jc


Excuse me, Miss......I'll have what he's having.

21 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:45 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Quote John,
I think there is only one dimension and that is Gods dimension. Our minds process requires us to define something that we do not readily comprehend as something that comes from a different place, so we create a definition that helps us understand what we are referring to.

It is difficult if not impossible to comprehend living as a spiritual being and not one that has the current boundaries of the mind and physical body. But we can experience its freedom when we become lost in the spirit even though it might be brief. (End Quote)

This is kinda what I've been thinking about here lately. There are some who believe we existed before The foundation of the World, mainly because of statements like..."We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the World". I had talked a little bit about it with someone, but if we did, what was we? What kind of state was we in?

I don't know if I can comprehend us as being anything else but a creative thought in the Mind of God. I compared it to something that is familiar to me, as an artist, in my mind I know exactly what something is going to look like before I begin to create it "in my mind's eye" so to speak. But until it comes forth, by me putting my hand to the brush or pencil it remains in me. Untouched by the physical elements around it. But on the other hand, if I know that when it does come forth it is subject to corruption, I must have something in place to protect it once it is finished. So therefore I have a Sealant or Glass to cover it so that it is preserved.

But until my works are put with my faith, my faith remains dead. Now the question is, What of God? We know He said and He saw. I can also do the same, I can say what the picture is going to look like before it is created, I could give you the size, the colors to be used, the tools that it was going to take to complete it, but again, even though I said and I saw, does that mean it exist that it has any substance until I bring it forth? I hope you see what I'm trying to describe here. So if we did exist in God before He put His works with His Faith, what were we, except Seed, through His Word?

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

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22 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:58 pm

Long2JC

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I believe I understand what you are describing here, Scherryl.

One of the big factors to these questions is use of time.

We operate in a realm that depends on time, God does not. Your example of creating a painting is perfect example of a timeline or the process of steps that it takes to create one. With God, His beginning, is His end and His end, is His beginning. It doesn’t mean that there are not events taking place between the beginning and the end; they just cannot be place in a time frame as we understand time. For me I feel I have enough understanding to know that I cannot comprehend this subject enough to explain it. (I bet that helps) silent

Another factor is your reference to "put His works with His Faith”. Hebrews 11 says that faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." While there are differencing opinions on how these verses are translated they all kind of agree on the concept of “a belief in things not seen”. So if go with this belief, then is faith only a human concept and God does not have faith because He already knows?

This whole concept is a human being trying to put into words something that will communicate the concept of what God was saying. We need to remember the words we use to communicate are words that we understand of the definition of, based on what we were taught. There are many things that God reveals to us that cannot be put into the definition of our words, but we try anyway and it can bring confusion. Just like there can be a painting or music that stirs us but we cannot explain to someone else, how it affected us.

So can we just accept the fact that there are things of God that we just cannot understand in the confines of our human nature? Oops, I guess they call that faith.

I think I better quit before I try to understand what I just wrote.

23 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:38 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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LOL, Thanks John for your reply. I can't say I fully understand, but that's ok too. I do understand what your saying about seeing things according to time though, and that when It comes to God He is outside of time, so ... Maybe we will know some day.

Thank you
Blessings Very Happy

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24 Re: In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:45 am

cross-eyed

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We know He said and He saw
I'd like to add to that premise just a tad and say . . .before I can say, I have to see first. So . . .perhaps we can then say, God saw (in the spirit) he said (to the natural) and he saw in the natural what was already there in the spirit. So perhaps it was more of an "alignment" between spiritual and natural rather than just blindly creating in the natural???

As to whether or not we existed before we manifested in the natural, I for one believe we did/do. Again, for reasons already given in the fact that EVERYTHING is already complete in the spirit realm, nothing is new under the SON. So when our tenure in the natural is final and we die, we return to the spiritual from where we were truly born.

There is a passage . . .I think in Ecclesiastes where it says that our flesh returns to the earth from where it cam and our spirit returns to the Father from where it was "sent".

Eccl. 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Because God sent it, that would indicate to me that my spirit didn't begin in this realm, it just manifested in this realm though this body for a short period of time and should my life end before the end of days, then my spirit returns back to where it came from, my body returns back to the earth, and . . . and this may be where some choose not to embrace, but I see my soul then merely stops manifesting the fact that there's a spirit alive in this body.

But at the end of days in this realm, as Paul presented, our spirits once again return to these bodies but the difference being that we'll be in bodies that have a few upgrades. For one, and again, this is all just my own personal perception, feel free to retain your own. But for me, I believe there will be two major changes . .. one is we'll be able to freely cross over from spiritual to natural whereas now, our bodies our bound solely to the natural.

And two, we'll no longer be confined to natural laws of time which means we'll become eternal. I believe even though we continue on after physical death, we're only complete beings when we're in these bodies. And that's the reason for us returning into glorified bodies.
Otherwise, why not just remain spirits? Why go through all the trouble of returning to resurrected bodies? But again, that's just me.

25 In Heaven There is no Beer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:37 pm

Hibbs


Yup, Nathan...I really am tired of getting up to go the bathroom in the night and pain in my shoulder and this cloudiness in my right eye...it just seems like something is amiss. Somewhere inside is this voice saying that these things are not permanent...that healing and life and peace and joy are permanent and that freedom is a dimension into which we have only glimpsed. With my heart I know that the Creator of the universe has a plan that is exceedingly, abundantly above all that I can ask or even imagine and that there is a day that will declare it. I have heard of that day with the hearing and am looking to see it in manifestation. That that we have heard, we declare, that that we have seen afar off we anticipate, the healing that our hands have touched (no matter how briefly or infrequently) and have handled, we know to be true and it is this message that we declare...not a tradition or philosophy, theology or even a doctrine; but a relationship that is becoming stronger and stronger as we look unto Him and call these things to remembrance in each other.

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