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26 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:45 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 22, 2017

Because I believe that all physical examples are to be understood as something spiritual that takes place in us, if they pray for physical healing I see that as to heal the flesh, when what needs to be healed is the spirit (which can also be seen as soul or mind/heart) because "all are in all" therefore "all are all"

In the flesh/spirit comparison, the disease of leprosy, it is a disease that eats away at the flesh and in the same way, sin is the disease that eats away at the spirit

if it is a physical heart problem, in the same way we can have a problem with our (spirit) heart, or like Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) a problem of the mind where it has a hard time staying focused at the task at hand in the same way our spirit mind has a hard time staying focused on Christ

These spiritual problems are manifested through our physical bodies, BUT they may not always be what we ourselves may be suffering from spiritually, it could be just a physical manifestation of the spiritual problems of the world ...... just like Christ took on the sin of the world but yet was sinless, we too can take on the sin of the world despite the fact that we do not suffer from that certain sin.

as for being accused of faithlessness, the devil (the carnal mind/serpent) is the one who accuses and he uses the law to do it, when someone uses the law to accuse that is proof that they are still under law rather then having moved into the better covenant of grace.

Even if I accused you of something, that is the devil in me (in my flesh) that would accuse, because the flesh is still under law (under the law of death .. it must die) but since we are of the Spirit we are of grace

This is what Paul was talking about in chapter 7 of Romans, that it is not him that does the things he does, it is sin in the flesh that does these things.

Most people cannot comprehend that they can be two different things at once, both a Cain and an Able (an example of two sons that we see throughout the Bible), just like Cain (an example of the flesh) wants to kill Able (the example of the spirit) so it can continue to live, but it was created TO DIE for the purpose of our spirit understanding what it means TO LIVE

This is also why we can understand that we can love our enemy (the flesh) and forgive it for what it does because without it our spirit could not understand the things we ARE to understand.

I know .....  a lot said ..... we can keep planting seed in those who do not believe like we do, but only God can make them grow ..... the thing I find interesting is a picture of someone standing in the presence of Christ, having all they understood being burned away like chaff, but Christ will hand them a big bag of seeds that were given to them while alive on this earth, but were taken away for the purpose of being stored in heaven where they could not be corrupted ...... it is this bag of seed that they begin their new life of planting their garden to grow

PRAISE AND GLORY be to God

blessings brother



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

27 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:48 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 22, 2017

man, you are good Jugg! i know, i know...there is only One good...... ok, it is the Son within you that I see shining forth....

i will be reading and re-reading your words about healing but a couple things stick out"

You said....."Because I believe that all physical examples are to be understood as something spiritual that takes place in us...."
That so refreshes my soul. I take this for granted now but i feel sometimes like a voice crying in the wilderness!

another thing you said "These spiritual problems are manifested through our physical bodies....."
You went on to explain very well but at first i thought about Job and his friends. Didn't they accuse him of sin as to the cause of his physical problems?

so, are you suggesting that if someone is prayed over to remove an earache, for example, that the real problem is something spiritual? someithing in the spiritual realm needs prayer? so if this person doesn't get physically healed then the spiritual problem is still active?

this is making sense to me but will take some more pondering.

i like that it doesn't necessarily mean the person has a specific sin problem but something is going on in the spiritual realm that needs prayer.

i think of Jesus forgiving the sins of the guy on the cot instead of healing him physically at first.

got to run. please comment on my comments. you are being so helpful to me!



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

28 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:56 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 23, 2017

Quote from: claypot
You said....."Because I believe that all physical examples are to be understood as something spiritual that takes place in us...."
That so refreshes my soul. I take this for granted now but i feel sometimes like a voice crying in the wilderness!

My response:
I agree with you 100%, when no one wants to listen to what God is showing you through revelation it is a feeling of a voice crying in the wilderness.

But this too is an example of what is taking place in this physical realm, this world is a "dry" place, meaning the majority of it is without "living water" (the Spirit of Christ), we try to give them this "living water" in us because we can't help being an overflowing fountain, but just like His own people rejected (did not receive) Him when He came in the flesh, they reject it from us because they first rejected Him.

The hardest thing I have to deal with myself is being patient and waiting for a return (the harvest) when something is planted, but even that is to receive our reward here rather than waiting to be returned to glory by the Father just as Christ was when He says "Well done good and faithful servant"


Quote from: claypot
another thing you said "These spiritual problems are manifested through our physical bodies....."
You went on to explain very well but at first i thought about Job and his friends. Didn't they accuse him of sin as to the cause of his physical problems?

My response:
That may be so, but again, who is the accuser? Is it not the devil/Satan? And again, if we take on the sins of others without actually sinning ourselves, what if the physical problems Job suffered from was the manifestation of the spiritual problem that was going on in his friends? (for how you judge another you will be judged or how you measure another it will be measured back to you) Something to think about.

This understanding about those verses about judging and measuring can be seen as when someone is pointing out what they believe to be sin in another, what is actually happening is: that person is a mirror of the other person and if they accuse another of a sin, they are actually accusing themselves but do not know it.

Also ..... That accusation by the friends of Job was a prophecy fulfilled by Christ when the Spirit led Him into the wilderness for forty days.  By them accusing Job of sin (another way to see it is that they were accusing him of being unrighteous) they were attacking his identity of righteousness, God Himself said He was righteous and that Satan could have his way with him, but could not kill him. Why I brought up the concept of "identity" is because we see this in the wilderness with Christ and Satan.

It is almost always overlooked by people because it has to be revealed by His Spirit, when Satan says to Christ "If you are the Son of God" that was an attack on His identity, trying to get Christ to question His identity of being the Son of God ..... to get Him to falter - by not believing what the Father had said to Him at His Baptism "This is my Son"

Quote from: claypot
so, are you suggesting that if someone is prayed over to remove an earache, for example, that the real problem is something spiritual? someithing in the spiritual realm needs prayer? so if this person doesn't get physically healed then the spiritual problem is still active?

My response:
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, let's take the earache as the example, let's break in down to it's lowest common denominator (yes I love math) what is an earache? it is a part of the body that is suffering from pain, but more specific, a "hearing part" ..... if someone is suffering from one and we do take on the sins of this world like Christ does, it can be this person himself is hearing things that cause him pain or he knows of someone that is suffering from pain because of what they are being told.

Quote from: claypot
this is making sense to me but will take some more pondering.

i like that it doesn't necessarily mean the person has a specific sin problem but something is going on in the spiritual realm that needs prayer.

My response:
The reason we do take on the sin of the world is for the purpose of identifying with a person who may be suffering from the same thing, but even if we have not actually experienced it exactly like another, we can all identify with pain and what the effects of it are.

Try talking to some of these people and see what they think about what I am explaining about "taking on the sins of the world", if an aliment can be identified ..... then you can say to them that they know of someone that is suffering from it spiritually, BUT KNOW FIRST the spiritual understanding of it, otherwise it too will be rejected. What I mean by that is: take the earache example again, if someone is suffering from one you can approach them without even mentioning the earache and ask them "you know someone being told something they do not want to hear?" Then explain to them that they are living the life of Christ and taking on the sufferings of Christ just like the written word says we do.

And going back to your opening statement: "man, you are good Jugg! i know, i know...there is only One good" the one thing I have to admit about all of what I say is this, almost everything is being given to me to say as I write it, the majority of these things have never crossed my mind before ..... this in itself is because i believe the words "Do not worry about what to say, for in that hour I will give you the words"

And that my friend I believe is confirmation and affirmation to me ... that He is working through me for you

this coming December 12th it has been 12 years since He first touched my heart and it has been an awesome experience of life ever since, some things I have gone through I would not wish upon an enemy, but I know for a fact it was all FOR my benefit

and by the way, ALL physical examples in the Bible were fulfilled in one way or another by Christ while He walk this earth, HE HAD TO BE the full manifestation of the written word.

Blessings brother



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

29 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:58 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 24, 2017

i've just explained your words to my wife about the healing and she is impressed. a lot to digest yet but it tastes good. thank you Jugg.

so back to adam and eve. do you see adam and eve as a race of people? in other words, were there ever really two people running aroung naked in a garden or do they represent a civilization of sorts? did God ever create just one person and then 2?

jugg, i don't know why i'm even asking this question of you but i feel God has put us together for some reason. you and your words are so encouraging.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

30 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:06 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 25, 2017

I too agree that we have been brought together for a reason, you remind me of myself a few years ago, my girlfriend (2knowHim) use to describe me as a sponge, wanting to soak up everything I was told (don't know if you remember her from the time you were on before, but the Lord took her home on 3/14/16), it was through her that I come to understand that Genesis Chapter One was to be understood as the process He brings us into Declaring our end at the beginning a quote by the prophet Isaiah (I think) (His expansion of His Word/the growing of His Word/ Christ being formed in us).

Did God start out the human race by two people that were once one, yes I believe it to be possible, but I have come to understand that what we may believe in the natural (a physical understanding) always comes second to the spiritual example we are supposed to understand (which I know you know already).

I am about to talk about something that will probably blow your mind, but if you can comprehend it (which I believe you can since you are of His Spirit) it can change your whole perception of things as you currently understand them.

Let's look at the big picture first, we have the physical realm and we have the spiritual realm ..... now when we look at just the physical realm, it too is divided into two things ..... those two things are space and matter ..... matter moves through space ..... for example the earth moves through space ...... it moves on a specific path through space that is unchangeable by the laws of physics

as this matter moves through space it can be measured ..... it can be measured by two different means ...... those two different means are distance and time, what I mean by this is: we can not only measure the movement of the earth through space in distance (how far it has traveled) but we can also measure the movement of the earth in space by time (how long it takes to travel a distance)

Now comes the part that may blow your mind, time as man understands it does not exist: meaning man understands that we move through space/time, that they are so closely interwoven they are one BUT we do not, time is no different than a ruler that is used to measure distance, it's just a ruler that we call "time"

To make this a little clearer:
matter moves through space and it can be measured by distance
matter moves through space and it can be measured by time

the difference between the two is this:
time measures "HOW LONG" it took for the matter to move
distance measures "HOW FAR" it took for the matter to move

The whole reason I needed to try to explain this is because of understanding that the physical realm is: "A STATE Of EXISTENCE" in the same way the spiritual realm also is "A STATE OF EXISTENCE"

We are just moving "IN" a state of physical existence just as we can also move "IN" a state of spiritual existence

and the whole purpose for all this is to understand "growth", just like in a plant you can measure a plant by distance in that the plant is six inches high, but that same plant can be measured in time by how long it took to grow to that six inches

and all this explains what I have written in my signature "Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding" ..... in other words it doesn't make a difference "HOW LONG" you have been studying His Word, what makes the difference is "HOW MUCH" you understand by that studying, which is just another way to say "HOW MUCH (HOW FAR) YOU HAVE GROWN IN THE WORD"

Since we know that time has no relevance to how long it takes us to understand something in the spirit, why should it have any relevance to how long it takes to understand something while we are in this physical realm ...... which ..... with this understanding we can believe that our education of the word extends even beyond death which man's doctrines of education of His word ends at physical death.

now back to our beginning of this: Adam and Eve ...... again, yes God could have started the whole of mankind from these two people, but for me they are more as examples in the grand scheme of things.

and as for the word "naked" when we understand that it represents unrighteousness ...... a lot of things start to make sense, just look at the people of this world, they are unrighteous (naked) and are not ashamed, they are just living their physical life.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil produces a fruit, the fruit that they ate was "the law" it wasn't until we eat of the law of God that our unrighteousness is revealed to us and then we feel we have "TO DO" something about (which is the mindset of religion) rather than understand that God has already done everything for us, but then there are those who take advantage of God's kindness, they believe that God loves them and that God will save them and think they can do what they want, but that causes death

Death to God is non-movement or not growing because they have no understanding of His Word, no understanding of Christ.

I know, I know, ...... I wrote a book, hope that makes sense as to where I stand in my beliefs

Blessings brother



Last edited by J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D. on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changed date)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

31 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:09 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 25, 2017

Just a little more about this subject, time itself does not move, we move and time just measures the movement

Again, the main reason this is important is for us to understand growth and just this morning the Lord showed me how to better explain the difference between man's seed and God's seed

Man's seed is like the nature of animals, an animal only grows until it reaches a certain size and that size is what we consider to be maturity

But with God's seed, it is like the seed of a plant (more specifically a tree), a tree can reach maturity, but its size continues to increase, it still continues to grow even after it has reached maturity

Another way that you remind me of me is: you think outside the box, man puts God in a box and says He can't do anything outside what they consider to be true (like saving after physical death) ..... it is this example of man that we can see that the mindset of religion stops the growth process, they give the nature of the flesh (stops growing/stops moving/death) rather than the nature of the Spirit (continues growing/continues moving/life)

I love the fact that God has brought you across my path, I have so longed for, to be able to talk to someone about what He shows me and someone actually listens and asks questions

Thank you Lord for claypot, he has been an inspiration to what You have shown me, just like all Scripture is inspired by You, so is claypot Your Scripture, Your Son who inspires this Son.

Blessings Brother and I do not use that word "Brother" lightly



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

32 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:11 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 26, 2017

i only have a few minutes here but wanted to say 2 things before i re-read your amazing words.

i too feel like God has introduced me to a kindred spirit in you! it's an amazing thing!

you can't write enough about time and space and how it interacts with the spiritual....you can't write enough about this for me so keep pounding those keys!

i'll continue a bit here...
i have believed that time and space are a huge key for understanding our existance here. i have thought often and deeply about existing beyond these fences of time and space. time and space mold so much of our thinking and beliefs as you so adequately put it (but again BROTHER, i want so much more so keep it coming).

i know there is a purpose for time and space ofcourse but i know our true existance lies beyond them

also i do remember a little bit 2knowhim. can you give me a bit of info about her. from your few words about her and my shadow remembrance i sense she is an amazing being! i bet if i looked up past posts i'll find i interacted with her!

the growth process sure confirms the old saying that it is the journey and not the destination that is what it's all about! i tend to overthink everything so i am thinking about what i just wrote and i see that there are many destinations within the ultimate destination but i really don't think we will ever reach an ultimate destination, do you? we will always be learning and thus growing!



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

33 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:17 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 26, 2017

Quote from: claypot
i only have a few minutes here but wanted to say 2 things before i re-read your amazing words.

i too feel like God has introduced me to a kindred spirit in you! it's an amazing thing!

you can't write enough about time and space and how it interacts with the spiritual....you can't write enough about this for me so keep pounding those keys!

My response:
Thank you for your encouraging words


Quote from: claypot
i'll continue a bit here...
i have believed that time and space are a huge key for understanding our existance here. i have thought often and deeply about existing beyond these fences of time and space. time and space mold so much of our thinking and beliefs as you so adequately put it (but again BROTHER, i want so much more so keep it coming).

i know there is a purpose for time and space ofcourse but i know our true existance lies beyond them

My response:
I agree with our true existence lies beyond this physical realm, what the Lord showed me one day was this: the purpose for the physical is to have something the natural mind can understand to be used later in life to understand the spiritual (whether on this side of physical death or the other) ..... this is why I believe that all physical examples have spiritual meaning hidden in them, which is just another way of saying "truth is hidden in the physical world and only God reveals it" and the greatest understanding is: "LIGHT was hidden in the DARKNESS" Day One of Genesis


Quote from: claypot
also i do remember a little bit 2knowhim. can you give me a bit of info about her. from your few words about her and my shadow remembrance i sense she is an amazing being! i bet if i looked up past posts i'll find i interacted with her!

My response:
Don't know if there is anything I can say about her that might jog your memory, what I will say is ..... in the 3 years I was with her my understanding of God ... of who and what He is exploded, God brought her and I together for His purpose to better understand Him (and His process), and I believe the same holds true for you and I


Quote from: claypot
the growth process sure confirms the old saying that it is the journey and not the destination that is what it's all about! i tend to overthink everything so i am thinking about what i just wrote and i see that there are many destinations within the ultimate destination but i really don't think we will ever reach an ultimate destination, do you? we will always be learning and thus growing!

My response:
Yes, totally agree, for me (and I believe you) I believe our destination IS the journey, in other words "our destination IS to be brought into His process" and He either brings us into it in this physical realm or at the point of physical death ..... for some their journey starts at physical death ..... and that in itself is to understand, "If I be lifted up I will draw ALL men unto me"



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

34 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:19 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 26, 2017

you wrote "and as for the word "naked" when we understand that it represents unrighteousness ...... a lot of things start to make sense, just look at the people of this world, they are unrighteous (naked) and are not ashamed, they are just living their physical life.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil produces a fruit, the fruit that they ate was "the law" it wasn't until we eat of the law of God that our unrighteousness is revealed to us and then we feel we have "TO DO" something about (which is the mindset of religion) rather than understand that God has already done everything for us, but then there are those who take advantage of God's kindness, they believe that God loves them and that God will save them and think they can do what they want, but that causes death

Death to God is non-movement or not growing because they have no understanding of His Word, no understanding of Christ.

I know, I know, ...... I wrote a book, hope that makes sense as to where I stand in my beliefs

Blessings brother"


You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. rev 3.17
naked is put in with this company so i understand what you say when you say naked means unrighteousness.

ok, so we (humans in human form) came from a spoken word or thought of this Being we label God, correct? Then is our whole journey or existance a dream or thought of God?

here's something i think about often.....what is God? we ascribe a 3 letter word to identify this Creator Being but what would you say God is? I know 'He' is love and light and all that but i am very curious how you will respond to this question because it has kept me up nights! i also know we probably can never fathom the totality of what/who God is but please give me your thoughts.

this will aid me in understanding who i/we am/are.

and you can never write a book too long for me so don't worry about length. you explained the time/space issue very well and i thank you!

Lord, be with this Brother and keep moving in his brain. Help us both to transcend this carnal mind to achieve more fully Your mind!



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

35 Re: Conversation with claypot on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:26 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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September 26, 2017

Quote from: claypot
ok, so we (humans in human form) came from a spoken word or thought of this Being we label God, correct? Then is our whole journey or existance a dream or thought of God?

My response:
I have a hard time believing that you asked this question, I have mentioned what I am about to say to my son and his girlfriend but I withhold saying this on the board because it might discredit anything I have said in the past (Which is another way of saying [paraphrased] letting the tares and the wheat grow together, if the tares are pulled up now it can uproot the wheat)

Yes, we came from a spoken word or thought of God ..... thought came first, the spoken word is the manifestation of thought outside of Himself to another

Then you asked "Then is our whole journey or existence a dream or thought of God?" ..... this phrase "THOUGHT OF GOD" is what blew me away..... this is the part I could not believe you asked about, I have so much wanted to speak to another about what He has shown me in this and I believe He has already prepared you in advance to receive it.

Not just "a thought" but "a thought process" the reason He knows every choice we will make is because He Himself has already lived it in His thought process before the foundation of the world, I believe that we ourselves are a physical manifestation of a thought process He already went through ..... each one of us is "a thought process" ..... any choice we make in this physical realm is made because He already made the choice and we are the manifestation of those choices, we (mankind) live His process ......

In short ...... God has already purified Himself of all evil (hurtful) thought ... (the word "evil" as translated, in its original meaning means "hurtful") God refined Himself before the foundation of the world (before the foundation of the physical realm) we ARE living out the process He has already accomplished in Himself .... the purification process that mankind is going through is the purification process He already went through and Christ is the first fruit (the first) to be the perfect thought process of the Father. This just blew me away when He showed me this.


Quote from: claypot
here's something i think about often.....what is God? we ascribe a 3 letter word to identify this Creator Being but what would you say God is? I know 'He' is love and light and all that but i am very curious how you will respond to this question because it has kept me up nights! i also know we probably can never fathom the totality of what/who God is but please give me your thoughts.

My response:
The only way I can explain it is in the words "I am" and why this is the name He give to Moses to speak to Pharaoh, since He has already gone through His own purifying process, hidden within these words "I am" are every good attribute left after the purification process ..... I am Love .... I am Life .... I am Light .... I am Father ..... I am Son ...... I am Spirit ..... etc. ..... "I AM" ALL THAT IS GOOD


Quote from: claypot
Lord, be with this Brother and keep moving in his brain. Help us both to transcend this carnal mind to achieve more fully Your mind!

My response:
Thank you for that, for His word (through you) does not come back void



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

36 Re: Conversation with claypot on Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:32 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Spetember 27, 2017

amazing words Jugg. simply amazing. i'm afraid if i give them the time they deserve to mine the precious nuggets you may not hear from me for about 10 years!!!!!! and then i would only be scratching the surface.

i am also encouraged that it looks like you will put up with me as i sometimes hammer certain points endlessly.

i would like to keep tapping your heart and mind an who God is. i know we just can't KNOW but can we? would you agree with me or maybe you are outright saying it and i need to do some re-reading......but to put it simply, are we God's thoughts.

you say thought process and that sent chills up my spine and then you said any choice we make he has already made....... i was thinking how we think about things. i will think about something and then change my mind and think in a new direction and go on and on.

in one sense of course God does not change his mind numbers 23.19 yet like with jonah and nineveh jonah 3.4......he seemed to.

now is where my mind blows completely. we are a thought, an expression of the I Am! God is nothing and everything. no male or female with God, no bond or free............no life or death??? no light or darkness?????

help me out Jugg.

am i going into loony tunes land.

cp



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

37 Re: Conversation with claypot on Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:10 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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I would like to address each of these as I have done in the past with other things you have asked:

Your Statement:
amazing words Jugg. simply amazing. i'm afraid if i give them the time they deserve to mine the precious nuggets you may not hear from me for about 10 years!!!!!! and then i would only be scratching the surface.


My response
I myself thought they were amazing also when He showed me these things ..... and like I have already said before, it has taken 12 years for me to get to this point of understanding and I agree, we are both just scratching the surface


Your statement
i am also encouraged that it looks like you will put up with me as i sometimes hammer certain points endlessly.


My response
It is not a matter of putting up with you ..... it is a matter of passion ..... I recognize the same passion for the truth in you as I have been shown and experienced in myself ..... and your choice of the word "hammer" is no coincidence ..... for He pounds the earth (heart) with passion (a hammer/fist) to spread it out to cover everything, just as He does/did with any other word (Word) ..... passion is another attribute of strength in our Lord


Your question
i would like to keep tapping your heart and mind an who God is. i know we just can't KNOW but can we? would you agree with me or maybe you are outright saying it and i need to do some re-reading......but to put it simply, are we God's thoughts.


My response
Yes, I believe we are God's thoughts ..... and even a string (process) of thought ..... as for KNOWING God ..... I believe we can but it is nothing compared to actually being in His presence (which I know you know already) because that is to EXPERIENCE HIM ..... and to experience God here is what makes this physical life worth living

I am an avid fan of the show "The Voice" and when I hear the stories of the people on there and hear their voices singing, I have lost track of how many times I have cried, for me that is to experience the joy of the Lord because what brings joy to the Father is to bring joy to others. I have mentioned in the past that my walk started with the word "compassion" and to experience that compassion on a daily basis is awesome for me.

The difference between "know of" and "know" IS EXPERIENCE, we can be told of an experience (to know of it) but to actually experience it is to "KNOW" the experience, God is our experience, we experience being a father, we experience being a son and the greatest of all is: we experience being a Holy Spirit which is our heavenly Father and Son


Your statement
you say thought process and that sent chills up my spine and then you said any choice we make he has already made....... i was thinking how we think about things. i will think about something and then change my mind and think in a new direction and go on and on.


My response
Not sure if you are saying the chills were a bad thing or a good thing, I hope you see it as a good thing because I believe that would be His Spirit growing in you. Since we are experiencing what God has already gone through (which is what I believe), when you say "I will think about something and then change my mind and think in a new direction and go on and on" this is God thinking before the foundation of the world, it is understanding "what is temporary" and "what is permanent" ..... if you change your mind your first way of thinking was temporary until another thought entered in and changed it.

With God, His whole thinking process before the foundation of the world was temporary because He had not finished thinking out every possibility, but once every possibility was thought of this is when He spoke because the speaking of it becomes permanent: it becomes UNCHANGEABLE.


Your statement
in one sense of course God does not change his mind numbers 23.19 yet like with jonah and nineveh jonah 3.4......he seemed to.


My response
It is a matter of perspective, it may seem like He did but He didn't, how to explain this at this point I am not sure, but I know it has to do with everything else I am writing (speaking) about


Your question
now is where my mind blows completely. we are a thought, an expression of the I Am! God is nothing and everything. no male or female with God, no bond or free............no life or death??? no light or darkness?????

help me out Jugg.

am i going into loony tunes land.

cp


My response
Loony tune land is just a matter of perspective, it is a foreign land that we are being brought into, it is no different than Abraham being sent into a foreign land, (which also relates to Christ being led into the wilderness) we enter in with faith, a foreign land can be compared to darkness, the unknown, (which also relates to grave) we are resurrection life, constantly being brought into something we do not understand (darkness) in order to be brought into the light (His understanding).

Your statement of "God is nothing and everything" is understood by me as "God is neither but both" ..... not sure if this is going to make sense to you but here goes ..... He is "neither" in the context of separation or standing on its own, but He is "both" in the context of unity or one ..... meaning: without death we cannot comprehend life and in the same way, without life we cannot comprehend death, this also applies to "darkness" and "light" ..... we cannot comprehend (understand) light without darkness and in the same way we cannot comprehend (understand) darkness without light.

If all there was was darkness, can we know what light is? and in the same way, if all there was was light, can we know what darkness is? We have to have both, this is the purpose of the physical realm, to have something that is (temporarily) less than something else so the something else can become permanent.

We are living out the temporary to be brought into the new world which will be permanent, there will be a permanent physical world but not until this temporary one is finished.

Lord, I thank you again for bringing claypot across my path, there are so many things you have shown me through writing to him that I had never seen, let alone understood before

To Your Name be the Glory



Last edited by J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D. on Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added thought)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

38 Re: Conversation with claypot on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:35 am

claypot


sending chills down my spine was definitely meant as a very good thing!

your words on experience help much. it's all so common sense once the word outside (in this case, you, jugg) meets the word inside (spirit, holy spirit). hope this makes sense.

as to God is neither but both, i am hearing you. i once heard good and evil explained as two sides of the same coin. i resonated with that. i do battle so often with those around me with the reality that God is responsible for evil. (i am editing here....what i mean is, is that i see God as totally responsible for evil, not sin, but evil) talk about getting crucified! (i mean no disrespect for those crucified in more harsh ways.)

here is another big belief of mine and forgive me for flying around the board (no pun intended) here but as we get to know each other i hope to focus my thoughts more.

the belief that God is a God of balance is huge with me. you have probably arrived at this? since the beginning of time even as recorded in the Bible there has always been a balance. good never completely takes over and neither does evil. cain and able, david and goliath, light and darkness, mother theresa and hitler and so on. even in our universe the balance of the planets, the distances that are perfect and so on.

again, if for no other reason my belief in God is confirmed by the FACT that something is balancing this thing we call life. even my very self, i have my ups and downs, my laughing days and angry days and so on.

this continuous and perfect balance just cannot be a random occurance.

now let me clarify to any who read this that i don't see the balance as a perfect level balance. it's more like a back and forth balancing act. sometimes good is on top and then the pendulum swings and the evil gets the upper hand.

i so await your thoughts on all this and remember i have thick skin. if you had an inkling of what i'm going through job-wise you would know this about my thick skin! so bring it on Brother! i want to grow, not be babied!
is babied a word??????

39 Re: Conversation with claypot on Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:38 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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The way you worded "totally responsible for evil, not sin, but evil" jumped out at me as I read it ..... I couldn't agree more ..... for what is sin? it is to miss the mark ..... what causes us to miss the mark? it is not the lack of ability, the cause for us to miss the mark is not being able to see the target

We miss the mark because we look for the target outside of ourselves, we can only hit the mark when we see that the target is inside of ourselves, we miss seeing the target because we are looking in the wrong direction, we look outward rather than inward.

My mind is going a mile a minute about this, will get back with more later, got to get a little rest before work.

And something else I wanted to say, Einstein said that nothing can move faster than the speed of light, I no longer believe that, and the reason I no longer believe it is because ...... THOUGHT can

later brother



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

40 Re: Conversation with claypot on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:48 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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To address the subject of balance, you know me, I am one for detail, specifics, for the purpose of no misunderstandings.

by the examples you used ... "cain and able, david and goliath, light and darkness, mother theresa and hitler" ... each one of these in a general understanding can be understood as something else, but even the examples I am giving for each are only one example that can be seen in each

Cain and Able = murderer (he who kills) and victim (he who was killed)
David and Goliath = big and little
Light and Darkness = opposites
Mother Theresa and Hitler = good and evil

As I have mentioned before, breaking each one down to its lowest common denominator we can see that all the examples can be seen as "opposites" which by this we can also understand them as "contrasts"

so now I have to ask, what are you seeing "balance" or "contrast"?





Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

41 Re: Conversation with claypot on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:00 pm

claypot


i totally understand the contrast truth and it is there but i am focusing on balance. what i'm saying that really causes me to even believe in God (apart from HIs working in me) is how everything works! it just works. if the sun were a little closer, if evil took over completely or if good took over completely and so on.

i look at my life, tiredness and exhileration, anger and peace. look at all humans.....war and peace, winter and summer, storms and sunny days....

sure, when looking at the small picture where someone may be in poverty their whole life it may seem like there is nothing but poverty but we know there is great wealth somewhere.

spiritually things are similar......a balance.

on another note i really like what you said and thought being faster than light. this said much more to me than you realize. it is causing me to think about God's thoughts, how fast and powerful they are. of course with God there is no 'fast' there just is but you get my drift.

got to run

42 Re: Conversation with claypot on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:34 pm

claypot


hey jugg,we have about 20 super great aspects of God going and we will narrow it down soon but let me add another that i would appreciate your input on.

i just met a guy who is our age and he said something that i have been saying for years. i may be saying it badly but i believe God created adam and eve perfectly imperfect.there it is ..... perfectly imperfect.

i just met this man and he may speak at a place where i work (i manage) and i asked him to write a brief bio and he wrote this......i'll paste it here....

Here are a few of the "talking points" I would cover were l to do this event, and I would really like to, for Gods glory, not mine.

"I am son, I am a husband, I am a father, a grandfather, a retired LEO, (law enforcement officer), a lover of one woman, and of one Triune God! I am a child of The King, a servant of Christ, a Spiritual Warrior, but also I am flawed, and so are you. Gideon was flawed, Abraham was flawed, David was flawed, but they were 'Perfectly Flawed' to perform the tasks that Yahweh had in mind for them, and you too are 'Perfectly Flawed'. We are all flawed in this way, because if we weren't, we would not need God, and could not be used by Him to carry out the mission he has in mind for us. A mission to further His Kingdom, and bring Him the Glory He deserves."


jugg, this guy used the words perfectly flawed. i was floored. i never mentioned to him that i beleive adam was perfectly imperfect.

okay, why i say that is because most of my christian pals say adam was perfect and then became imperfect but i argue that if he was perfect he couldn't have 'fallen' unless God sinned (missed the mark).

anyway, what do you think? i would love for you to put some more meat on this bone.

43 Re: Conversation with claypot on Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:00 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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With what you are talking about, we can also see it as "order" or "a system of order", that all things work the way they do because that is the way they were designed to work. Men can call it the laws of physics, the laws of physics are the system of order that keeps everything moving in its proper order by reacting the way they were designed to, reacting to other things it may come in contact with or close proximity too.

I believe it is the spiritual truth spoke about through His word that the purpose of the law is to point us towards Christ, in the same way, just like this "system of order" (balance/laws of physics) in the physical realm points us towards the creator.

This also is combined with what your friend said with the words "We are all flawed in this way, because if we weren't, we would not need God, and could not be used by Him to carry out the mission he has in mind for us. A mission to further His Kingdom, and bring Him the Glory He deserves."

This understanding of being "perfectly flawed" can be seen in the words of Paul "for God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He may have mercy on all" (Romans 11:32), the word "unbelief" is "the perfect flaw" and  the word "mercy" is His "mission" to further His kingdom, which the word "further" can be understood as "make it better".

And by all of this understanding being brought together as one, we can come to the conclusion of:

God's system of government in the spiritual realm of mercy through grace is better than the system of government in this physical realm of condemnation through law

This is why the new covenant of grace "IS BETTER" than the old covenant of the law.

and all this is possible because God's system of order (government/covenant) also includes the removal of all darkness/evil from the man thereby saving the spirit where as men cannot remove these things or don't want to because it either gives them a sense of power over another (evil men) or it gives them the sense of doing good for another (the victims of evil men).

But all of this is with the understanding that the flaw is in "the mindset of the flesh" NOT "the mindset of the spirit" ..... in other words: our spirit is "the perfect being" our flesh is "the imperfect being" which both together we can see as "perfectly imperfect"



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

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