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1Has this forum died? Empty Has this forum died? on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:31 pm


Just wanted to post something I came to understand a few weeks back.

"Seeing our Loving Father through the eyes of a mature Son"

How far will His Spirit take us in order to show us how immature our own way of thinking is? The answer to that question is: As far as it takes, and with God, He will take us to His extremes.

When He shows us the immaturity of a child's mind in that when a child is being disciplined by his/her father, that child views the discipline as being punished. But when that child matures, they come to understand that their father loved them and "disciplined them out of love", which is understood as "he corrected our way of thinking because he loves us".

Have we moved into the maturity of our heavenly Father? Do we view Him as a punishing Father because we do not obey or listen to Him? Do we see Him punishing our siblings (the rest of mankind) but not us? Are we an immature toddler that tells our younger brother or sister "Dad is going to punish you."? Do we put them into a state of fear because of our own immaturity? Or do we act like an older brother and tell them "Dad loves you."?

The Jewish nation was to be that older brother telling their younger brother, the Gentiles, that God the Father loves them (the Gentiles) as much as He loves them (the Jews), but their own immaturity; thinking they were chosen and not others was why the commission was now given to the Gentiles. God provoked the Jews to jealousy, since they did not want the Gentiles to have the same thing that they did. Are we selfish in the same way, not wanting the unbelievers or even evil men to have what we have been given? Both unbelievers and evil men are immature in the ways of God, do we tell them our own Loving Father is going to punish them because they are immature in His ways? How immature our we if we tell others they are going to be punished? Have we become the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son, walking away from both our father and brother because of our own jealously that our heavenly Father loves the wayward Son as much as the older one? Just because the wayward son blew His inheritance does not mean that He stopped loving him. Did the Father love him more because he realized what he had done? No, the Father loved him the same, but was pleased he came to his senses.

Have we come to our senses that God loves His immature son as much as he loves his mature son? Do we walk away from our Heavenly Father and mankind because He will give the immature brother a feast that has belonged to the older brother all along? Do we not yet understand because of our own immaturity that the feast we feed upon is the love, forgiveness and compassion of the Father towards us and we are to give these things to our younger brother in the same way the Father does? For a Son can only do what He sees His Father do. We are not even a servant of God if we do not serve (give) these things to the immature. We become a glutten of His compassion, forgiveness and love, never wanting to give the same inheritance to the immature that we have received. We are not to hate the unbeliever or the evil man because they are the way they are; we hate their way of thinking, not them. If we hate an evil man because he is evil, we are unable to love them, we are unable to forgive them, we are unable to have compassion towards them. By only seeing them as who they have become rather than who they once were; for they were once an innocent new born led astray by the thinking of everyone they came in contact with while growing up. See their whole life from beginning to end just like our heavenly Father does and have compassion on them that have been made evil by the spirit of the world.

It's time to grow up people, become the loving Father towards them, become the forgiving Son towards them, become His Spirit of Compassion towards them. Am I saying to let these evil men out of these prisons of men in this physical world, NO, they need to be bound in this physical place to keep them from harming others, but we can have compassion, forgiveness and love towards them in our own bodies. Free them from the prison of your own unloving mind, free them from the prison of your own unforgiving heart, free them from the prison of your own non-compassionate spirit, for in doing so they are brought closer to the Father without them even knowing it. For what is let loose in this world will also be let loose in heaven, free them from the darkness they are in, the darkness of your own mind, heart and spirit.

Being able to do this cannot be done on our own, it can only be accomplished by the love of God in us. Repent (think differently) from your own wicked ways of non-compassion, unforgiveness and hatred towards men, for you do not understand the power of His love in us that can change them from their immature ways. We do not have to be in their presence to do these things towards them in our mind, heart and spirit. Did Christ have to be present to heal the servant of the centurion? No, the faith of the centurion is what caused the healing through Christ. So have faith in the power of your love, forgiveness and compassion towards evil men, for they will be healed by your faith. They will be healed by your mature faith which comes directly from the Father, through the Son in you and is manifested in His Spirit in you. Do not be like the rest of the world, unloving, unforgiving, non-compassionate towards them, for we are a peculiar people that the world does not understand. We are "in" this world, but we are not "of" this world.

Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

2Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Fri May 09, 2014 12:22 pm


A friend of mine told me not long ago that there are two falls.

The first is the fall into sin, obviously.

The second is the fall into religion; not so obvious.

All people fall into religion, some right away once saved, others it takes a while, but all people fall into it in their immature faith. We can see evidence of this even in the disciples.

Here is a kingdom key, not unlike what you wrote here. The ONLY way out of religion is relationship.

When God spoke this to me in May of 2013, I was rather put off, only partially realizing that I had never really had true relationship in my life. We began a small house meeting for one purpose only and that was to have Kingdom relationship with each other. I knew in the back of my mind that something powerful would come forward. My friend encouraged me and said it would take at least 9 months to see the Kingdom things start to emerge.

Well it has begun. I confess in my 24 serious years of walking with the Lord, I have never known what it was like to have a Kingdom, God-given relationship with any human being.

Jugg wrote:
It's time to grow up people, become the loving Father towards them, become the forgiving Son towards them, become His Spirit of Compassion towards them.

Let me tell you something full of Kingdom power.

Epitomized in the cross is this verse: 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

And what is the fruit of being born of God? Here it is:

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

There were two revelations I had about my own life. One, I never really loved those I walked with, because I was religious. The second, I had never really ceased from sin. Even the basic stuff.

By turning to relationship, I was adopting a principle for my life that would cause me to exit religion. In a recent meeting held in Chicago, a group was visited there by two people that were from Europe. My friend remarked how they came and honored everyone at the meeting. I was overcome with grief when I heard this. In heaven honor is part of the fabric. It is woven throughout all things from the least to the greatest. My desire is to see such things, but now I realize I did not have the capacity to give honor and I had known so little honor throughout my life. I resolved to honor my friends and those who I am with in the Spirit in our meetings. It is my primary goal these days.

Now, honor first comes from God and it is impossible to drum it up yourself. When you receive it you have to give it away, or it will cease. This is the beginning lesson. It is beginning to grow up.

So I will begin here also. Many of you I have spoken with personally and I want you to know that you have been majorly impactful to my life. I am deeply thankful for you. I celebrate inside and give thanks to the Lord for you because I see your devotion to Christ and your growth in Him. I rejoice because I see a company of brave hearts ready and willing to rise up in the calling that God has granted and I am certain that you will attain the testimony of your heavenly scroll. God bless you all.

3Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Sat May 10, 2014 11:02 am


Hi Todd, so nice to hear from you again....

Your words are so full of Grace and they moved me in spirit.
This is the very thing that me and Jugg has been discussing too, when and how will it all come about? As The Father held nothing back from Abraham that He was about to do, I believe also it will be with His Sons.

I also believe the sheep and the goats are being separated "Today", There are those of us who has the desire to go on with Him and sadly to say there are also those who have no desire to do so, but are very satisfied where they are at with Him..."Common Salvation".

We know that what God did in Christ, He did for All...but All do not know it...When He came, He took The "Sin" singular, of the world away...but most do not truly believe or understand that...especially those who have been called...it is a mindset that needs to change in order for The Son to be made manifest of which Paul says the whole world waits and groans for.....but if we the people don't "Reckon" ourselves dead indeed to sin then how can He Live?? Sin is a "Nature" and that was put to death on the Cross...The "things" people do and have been led to believe that is sin, is ONLY the by-product of an un-renewed mind, and therefore acts out of a "Nature" that has already been destroyed 2,000 yrs. ago....As the mind believes the man will follow...

We DIED along time before we were ever born, this is a hard concept for us to conceive..."it is NO LONGER I who live, but Christ in me.
As long as we believe that we pray, we heal, we lay hands on the sick, we preach, we dance we sing we praise we worship etc. etc. etc...

"We" are still very much alive..."WE", are Only a vessel, "We" are seated in heavenly places in Christ, We are at Rest in Him... He is the one who does All these things Not us...And until we can all come to this understanding in Him....we patiently wait for those to be killed as we were... Smile Rev.6:11

We are a Corporate Body, we must be Assembled in order for us to be made manifest....not just Gathered..but...Assembled...

Blessings Todd, and thanks for opening up this most important subject.

Has this forum died? Infini10

The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!

4Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Mon May 12, 2014 3:59 pm


Hello again Artic, long time...

Ah the sheep and the goats... I have not thought about that for a while, but yes it seems that indeed that is taking place. To me, it is like people are being given a chance to decide whom they will serve. Remember the Lord is longsuffering.

AS of late, I have been giving alot of thought to the subject you wrote about.

Quote : "When He came, He took The "Sin" singular, of the world away...but most do not truly believe or understand that...especially those who have been called...it is a mindset that needs to change in order for The Son to be made manifest of which Paul says the whole world waits and groans for.....but if we the people don't "Reckon" ourselves dead indeed to sin then how can He Live?? Sin is a "Nature" and that was put to death on the Cross...The "things" people do and have been led to believe that is sin, is ONLY the by-product of an un-renewed mind,"

The thing I desire most is out of reach. I want to live apart from Sin. I believe there is a premise in the bible for putting to death the misdeeds of the body, but how do we do that? Religion has led us astray I believe in not giving us the things we need most to live apart unto Christ. I have been going through a bit of rediscovery on this matter, but really it is diving in much deeper.

When we realize that there are things we can never overcome apart from from Christ, we should realize that there are things left to discover about our salvation. Bottom line is that all things are completed by the work of the cross, but what does that mean in application? It means that the remaining struggles are there to cause us to go deeper into the revelation of the cross and apply it to our lives. In my life, the new understandings seem to be hard won.

I have some new ideas about this.. Just wondering if anyone else is in this vein lately?

5Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Mon May 12, 2014 5:59 pm


Hi all Love your post Jugghead

I was going to call many different times unfortunately the phone I had became lost and I could not call. I also had some personal difficulties that I had to go through for our loving Father to fully persuade me of some things I thought I knew but it turns out i truly did not fully believe him.

Call me at 423 303 8659

P.s. I also just started a facebook page if you want to check it out


Grace and peace Patrick

6Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Mon May 12, 2014 6:06 pm


I have some new ideas about this.. Just wondering if anyone else is in this vein lately?

Hey todosan It seems that I have been going through the very same thing that you are describing. God started to bring me out of it just before easter.

This is what I shared on facebook recently:

Recently I have been going through many items that no matter what I did I could not seem to get any victory over them. It was getting worse over time. The more I tried to beat it the more I would fail.

On Friday before Easter I was driving home from work at 3:30 AM, and the drive was usually down dark country roads. But that night there was a light fog in the air and I noticed that a church which usually had its sign off: had it on. The light was very bright, because it was diffusing through the fog…then the spirit of the Lord hit me and I knew I had to read the sign. The sign read:


Then I heard Jesus singing to me the chorus “Ain’t no grave going to hold my body down.”

The body of Christ is the church Col 1:18, 24. The grave is our old man who is dead in trespasses and sins. The pharisees were even likened to graves that men walked over and did not even know that they were there.Luke 11:44 The grave pretends it is alive but continue to live in the darkness of sin. the grave does not have the power to live the life of an overcomer. The grave cannot keep his body down… the corporate Christ must rise in each of us then we shall begin to have victory in our lives by his resurrection power. The new man who is a member of the body of Christ must live his life through us or we shall never overcome adversity of sin.

God has to fully persuade each of us of the power of his spoken word, and of the power of his resurrection that resides in us to bring us out of the power of the grave we are each bound by. We cannot overcome death of the old man the flesh by being religious and using the strength of the flesh to overcome our problems. We would only deceive ourselves and remain bound in sin thinking that we are free, when in reality we are not free at all but more bound then before. Only the life of Christ rising up in us will set us free from the grave of our sin nature.

Ain’t no grave going to hold His body down!

Grace and peace Patrick

7Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Mon May 12, 2014 7:42 pm


Bravo Ptrick, BRAVO!

There was something alive in those words!

The more I have gone after the things that I feel I needed to, the more power that they seeem to have had. That is what led me to this recent line of thinking. There is a move of the Spirit among people today to deliver us from all things. I do believe that. It is just not going to happen in the way that we think it will.

I love the connection you made to the grave. That is great. The religious were white washed tombs. They were graves! HA! Well, we must fall to the ground and die first, eh Patrick?

Through death, Jesus destroys the one who has the power of death. Most recently I have been taking my death and instead of fighting against it, I have been nailing it to a tree of death and finding liberty. I am taking my filthy rags (sin and self righeousness) and each day I becomming that living sacrifice and dealing with them as it was meant to be. Be His power and not my own. By His cross, and not my own sacrifice. Trading my unrighteousenss for His righteousness. I can tell it is taking away its power. I can tell the movements within me are diminishing.

The Lord told me there is a group of three by which we overcome. Still exploring this. The cross, the blood, and the body. I think you just illuminated the body!

8Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Tue May 13, 2014 12:23 pm


My people perish for lack of Knowledge, but ever learning and never coming to the Knowledge of Truth...is just as bad, would we all agree to that?

I pray that I'm able to convey what is in my heart on this most important subject...

Where is our Identity?

The first Adam or The Last?
The flesh or The Spirit?
Unrighteousness or Righteousness?
Death or Life?
The Kingdoms of this World or The Kingdom of God?

In order to Identify with something or someone, we must first be a partaker of that thing or that someone's life.

We are No Doubt, what we eat and what we partake of.
And in the same sense, if we don't tend to, water, or feed that thing, then it will die.

1.The distinct personality of an individual regarded as a persisting entity
2.The individual characteristics by which a thing or person is recognized or known
3.An operator that leaves unchanged the element on which it operates
4.Exact sameness

You made a statement and then ask a question here.

"The thing I desire most is out of reach. I want to live apart from Sin. I believe there is a premise in the bible for putting to death the misdeeds of the body, but how do we do that?

By not Identifying with it...but Identifying with what He has done.."His Life"...Not yours, For your Life is Hid in Him.

Have you ever thought about the scriptures that say things like...
but it was not yet His time or when they tried to kill Him by stoning Him, He just disappeared into a crowd or escaped them somehow?

It was Not possible for Him to die, No one or Nothing could kill Him, Not sickness, Not Religion, Not The enemy, Not Anything or Anyone could kill Him, Why??

Because He Knew who He was, and He Knew what His purpose was...He Never once Identified with Sin, corruption, the flesh, sickness and disease, Governments, etc. etc. of this world.

Only, and I mean ONLY,... After He partook of The Covenant meal or "what we call the Last supper" could Death begin to take hold of Him, but this He did freely of His own will. This is where He gave His Life for us, it was in "the Cup", but what was in "the Cup" in The Garden of Gethsemane that He asked "if it were possible for it to pass from Him? Answer...Our life, Our old man, our Nature, our death, our carnal mind, our sickness and disease, our worthlessness, our sleeping souls, our rebellion, our slothfulness, ...... our Separation from Our Father... Is it any wonder why He suffered so in this place?  Sad 

From the Last Supper through to the Garden of Gethsemane and on through, from prison to Judgement in front of Pilate....I can't stress enough how Important this is for our Understanding,...... our Redemption, our Renewal, our Resurrection, our Freedom in all things........ IS.

If it takes us going back here in these three places again and again and again,.....before we are Fully Persuaded by The Spirit of God, What He has done so that we can BELIEVE it, then I would say do it...

For we are DEAD, and our Life now is Hid In Him...This is how it is accomplished Todd, This is how we begin to Identify with His life, His success, His Love, His achievements...and not with our failures, our old man, the first Adam...etc.

If we are still Sin conscience, still struggling with anything to do with it,...Then the wages of Sin is ...DEATH, and we will go by way of the Grave,  and Christ died in Vain for us.....because we have not fully Identified with,... What Death He Died...

"His Death"

Joh_11:13  Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Rom_6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Php_3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

I hope that my words are not coming across as harsh to anyone here, but, if we haven't come any further than the Apostles in 2,000 yrs. I don't believe it's because of God, for He says:

2Pe 1:3  According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.  

"As He is So are We in This World"...But Do We believe it?
"If Christ be in you, you are No longer in The flesh, but In The Spirit"...But do we Truly Believe it?
"We are The Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus"....Do We Believe it?

And last but Not least...."It is No longer I who live, But Christ in me"....

Remember Covenant Relationship....is Life for Life, and
Identity is Everything Just ask Jesus.... Smile 

I love you all

Has this forum died? Infini10

The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!

9Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Tue May 13, 2014 2:32 pm


Thank you Artic for your response.

I do not find your comments harsh or hard to swallow. I am soooo hungry for something beyond what I have eaten thus far.

As you know, most all of us here have been at it for a long time. If I took a description of what the bible says is true about us, and I held it up along side each of our lives, I am confident that the biblical description of us would be far more glorious than that of our experience. If this is not true, then I need to drive to where you are so you can teach me. I would very much like to tap into something powerful and beyond my own understanding. That being said, I do understand it is a process. I also understand divine timing.

Going back to my first quote, "He who has be born of God has ceased from sin." Now, I must confess that today alone I have had some problems driving behind certain very poor drivers. The movement within me does not reflect Christ, but very much the old man. I feel overpowered by my feelings at times. As the flouridated world around me becomes even more dull, I am challenged not to behave out of the flesh, but remain focused on the character of Christ. Sorry for such a simple example. It is difficult and I know better.

Here is how I view this. The circumstance is there to reveal what it is that remains in me. When I asked how, I was not looking for knowledge so much, but the application of the knowledge. I am a very deep study and have been so since about 1990 and I believe it is the lack of application of what I know to be the issue. I have not appropriated what is true concerning my salvation and I want to move beyond the "what" to fulifillment of the promise. I am HUNGRY! I can point to many examples of those who have. My desire for this is increasing.

So you suggest identifying with Christ, the things he has done, the character, the life, the attributes, the events, etc... All true.. BUT HOW? The renewing of your mind is obviously one way, but that does not get us there in that it is still a phrase that requires Life to enter in and be made manifest.

Lately, I have been taking account of the things God has given me. An inventory if you will. This includes my ability to relate to those things we hold most dear in Christ. Over the last week I have been trying something new. I have been attempting to go into the Spirit and nail the failures and weaknesses to the cross. I see myself actually nailing them right to the wood. The idea is to create a strong image of what Christ accomplished in His work, and make it woven into my own personal fabric. The effect? Well it has been interesting to say the least. I feel the draw and temptations leaving me. I feel the powers set against me failing now. I see a possibility of overcoming the struggle. It is very real.

Tonight we are meeting as a group. I am going to go get a block of wood, some nails, a hammer, and some filthy rags. I am going to look around the house for some symbolic sacrifices. I am going to nail some rags right to the wood so that I have a clear image seared into my mind. I think the Lord will speak to many different facets of this because it is such a cold harsh representation of what He did. The feeling I have in my soul is one of liberty in a way, becuase it is causing me to realize the very things that you spoke about. I will post a picture of this later on, when it is all garbled up with things we are laying down. Somehow the act of doing this cements into our experience the association that we have with Christ and causes us to daily become that living sacrifice.

I think I am going crazy, but for the first time in 5 years, I am getting free from some very deep things.. by way of the cross..

10Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Tue May 13, 2014 5:44 pm


Precious Brother Todd,

I plead with you, do not do this thing... Sad 
I have struggled with what to say to you, to try to explain that what you are talking about doing is "NOT THE WAY" that I spoke of...

Ultimately you will do as you feel led to do....but I must speak the Truth in Love ....I would not want to hinder the work of The Lord in anyway in your walk with Him....but what you are talking about doing is twisted, has Religious undertones, and I've seen it many times in Pentecostal services, and through Televangelist, and it never works. It may feel right for the moment, and present itself as a way to overcome or Identify with Christ, but it is pseudo.

These images that you have in mind has been given to you for the purpose of meditation and quietness before Him, so that He can reveal to you how He has done these things for you to be a partaker of them, it is not so that You can do them, He already did....It's for your knowing and Understanding in a Greater depth of His Life in you.

Please consider what I say, this is NOT what a Living sacrifice is... that is mentioned in scripture.

Much Love

Has this forum died? Infini10

The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!

11Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Wed May 14, 2014 10:53 am


Well, we had a amazing meeting, to say the least.

If you are warning me that this is not a method, you are absolutely right. It is not a method and I am sure some have made it precisely so. Too bad for them.

However, as an object lesson, it was quite impactful. Jesus used these types of illustrations frequently. There are various aspects or view points that we talked about. One could say our sin nailed him to the cross. Others may say that we did it. You could even build a case that the Father did it, based on "it pleased Him to crush Him". We talked about all those things briefly, but not enough to get sidetracked.

When I drove the nail into the wood, I felt a deep movement within me as I reflected on what that really meant. This turf belongs to Jesus alone. He was made sin and nailed to a tree. There must be an unending revelation of that, the pivotal premise for all our belief. The cross is a trading floor. When we come to trade, we trade our rags for His righteousness.

Isaiah 61:3
To console those who mourn in Zion, To give them beauty for ashes, The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; That they may be called trees of righteousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

To me, the main take away was that in many ways I had been trying to address issues apart from the manner God gave us in His Son. We had quite the visitation and several angelic things happened also. We could tell the resistance in the spirit, almost immediately, so we dealth with that and of course, Jesus always prevails.

The other more important matter at hand is our relationship with one another. The group has come to love one another on a plain that I personally have never experienced before. We care for one another, not because we belong to any group, but because we are part of a relationship founded in Christ. The transparency that we are enjoying is powerful in that we are able to help one another apart from judgement. There was such unity in this little exercise that I am wondering if we have not uncovered some lost treasure, that is only found in relationship.

This morning I awoke to a very renewed feeling and the Lord was re-emphasizing that the sons must arise in the calling and purpose given them. There is a place in the spirit, where the struggle ends. That is not up for debate... sorry. There are so few people who believe that, that I do not care to listen to it.

As overcomers, we are destined to overcome all the works of the enemy through the blood, the scroll of your testimony, and the laying down of your life. We are that generation that will succeed.

12Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Thu May 15, 2014 5:51 pm


Todosan thanks for your kind words.

after reading the conversation that you and artic have had I wanted to make a few comments if you don't mind...
When we forget who we truly are in him ... as he is so are we in this world: then we automatically live from who we think we are. Our biggest problem is that we are not fully persuaded in our minds that we truly are one with the Father and the Son even as they are one. This brings many problems when our daily conversations do not match what we claim to be true and say we believe. out of the abundance of the heart our mouths speak. So do our words really match what we believe or are we speaking one thing and trying to believe another.

Scripture has declared that a willing mind is accepted according to what a person has

2Co 8:9-12 KJV For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. (10) And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. (11) Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. (12) For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

Todosan when we see that we need to die then are you living from the death you have already received from him or are you trying to do something to earn it?

Our unbelief is the greatest hindrance we have from truly just believing we already have all things that we need for life and godliness in him.

Grace and peace Patrick

13Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Fri May 16, 2014 9:22 am


I couldn't agree more with you Patrick...and I understand exactly what you're saying..

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


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The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!

14Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Fri May 16, 2014 9:46 am


Hi Patrick1:

You wrote: "Todosan when we see that we need to die then are you living from the death you have already received from him or are you trying to do something to earn it?"

Probably neither... I have to think about it....

There are many positional blessings we hold in Christ. Have we appropriated them? Not so sure. I stopped fooling myself some time ago. I once believed that it was "Finished" and to me that meant I only needed to recognize that which was ALREADY done in Christ. I spent maybe five years living that way, and with some very good successes I might add. But it wasn't enough. Sorry, it wasn't.

I am wired to go hire. I have never been satisfied with the average, the mundane, the monotonous. The Lord's lessons are always progressive.

I had hoped by my explanation that you all would realize that I was in no way trying to earn anything. I really regret writing now, because I failed to do precisely that. I thought by saying "I reflected on what that really meant", it would be clear that I was not committing the error that you thought I was. I know the Kingdom group did not misunderstand. They all had very special encounters with the Lord through this simple, yet powerful exercise.

Anyway, as I was saying. That which is positionally held is not always active in our day to day. Which of you have been born of God? Which of you would dare to say you have stopped sinning? Yet, this is clear bible as I quoted earlier.

Paul worked out His salvation with fear and trembling. There are many things that are not accessible as we mature through the tutor and govenor stages of life. Then when appropriate Father gives access to the greater things of the Kingdom. Basic stuff here. My mind has been so scarred by religion that I find it is not my faith for the promises, but all the things that remain that keep me held down. I have been faithful in dealing with these things and it works. It is real. I am becomming free in areas that I have struggled with my whole life.

What I have not shared with you is that for the last 12 months, the Lord took me through a life and death spiritual battle. I have had to almost completely reject the older discussion on devils and demons because of what just happened to me. The Lord took me into the courts to overcome these things and once I was even translated. The realm we speculate about is far greater than anything I have ever imagined. The battle is real and only when you find out who you truly are, can you even begin to engage the Kingdom in an effective manner. But I am not sure we could even begin to discuss this....

Well, I have to go for now. The answer to your quesiton Patrick, is partly the former. I am living out of the Life afforded to us by His death. So indirectly it is the death already given.

15Has this forum died? Empty Re: Has this forum died? on Sat May 17, 2014 8:58 pm


If I misunderstood you dear brother then I truly apologize. When we see something in the spirit trying to speak what we see in him can come off limited and can unfortunately come across the wrong way. I know that since you are posting here that in many areas you are living from what you have. But if you are like me then there are many areas where we are not just yet. Since Easter I have been forced to face many different things in my life and readjust my thinking about what I believed that did not actually line up to the life we all have in Christ.

Your spiritual battle sounds similar to the battle I have recently gone through.

Words are inadequate to describe what we both see in the spirit. So know that i love you and truly appreciate what you have shared on this board.

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