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Was the fall a fall after all?

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1 Was the fall a fall after all? on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:59 pm

cross-eyed

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Kevin brought up this topic in another thread but from past experiences, this subject usually needs a thread of it's own for the subject to be further explored. But in his comments, for me, there seemed to be an answer already in the process of his questioning. And that was the fact that the act of redemption of the world through Christ, actually took place BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the world.

In the beginning God created the HEAVENS (first) and the earth (second). Now I know thsi appears to contradict with what the New Testament says about flesh then spirit but I believe that . . #1, it's dimensional, it can have several meanings . . .and #2, it wasn't about realms, the New Testament portion was speaking to the creation of man, he was made of the earth first, thus flesh came first, "then" God breathed into him spirit. Looking at it in this light allows both scriptures to be in harmony rather than contrast.

Back to the original point . . . Not only did Jesus already experience the redemptive order in the spirit before Adam fell, he did it before Adam was even created. If you look at it that way, then there's really not much room for the option of Adam "falling". Some believe Adam saw Eve's disobedience and he knew because they were one, he had to also eat of it.

I'm not denying that, and I can't speak for Adam as I wasn't actually there. But what we think of as a "Fall" God sees as his order in process. We look around at our surroundings and we think that God must be slipping because there's nothing out there but death, doom and gloom everywhere you turn . . .even in the church, not only in their message but in their deeds as well. But what if it's all still God's order?

Remember Paul's delimma with the thorn in his side? What was God's response to that? Embrace the grace . . .don't worry about your weaknesses. Don't worry about your failures, your inadequacies, your limitations . . .God's grace is all we need to sustain life within us. If all I see around me is death . . .what eyes am I seeing "through"? Mine? or His?

The call to "walk in the spirit" is one that never ceases to resonate in me . . .whether I'm reading or just "being", it all seems to just come more easily when I quit trying to make things easier.

What was the question?? I distracted myself again. Razz

2 Re: Was the fall a fall after all? on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:26 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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You did it now, you know I wont be able to resist diving in when it comes to this subject. Very Happy

I'm going to put something forth for all to consider here.

Gen.1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

What if, this "Heaven and earth" here, was the one's that were made to pass away, mentioned here:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Or here:

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

What if, this first Heaven and this first earth was created by the Carnal mind of men? Such as in Gen.6 where the Giants appear?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




And last but not least, What if, this word "God" was not singular, But Plural in Gen. 1:1? Well guess what, it is.

el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

433

'ĕlôahh 'ĕlôahh
el-o'-ah, el-o'-ah
(The second form is rare); probably prolonged (emphatically) from H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Go
d?

And all of it was meant to be, from the very Beginning, and I still believe, that Adam's fall/disobedience took place right here in Gen.1:2 Therefore, the reason for the Darkness that appeared. And from this point on, We See Redemption, through The Light of The Spirit of God up to, vs. :26 Where God says Let Us, make Mankind in our image, and our likeness, and let them have Dominion over,.......To me, This is the New Heaven and The New earth in The Christ/man, and also one of the Greatest vs. in All of Scripture, To Know that All was Finished before it ever, made manifest. Gen.1 reads like a Blueprint of what we are living out.

If Adam, only lived for one day, (1,000yrs.) then his fall would have had to have happened in the First Day of Gen 1, would it not? There are only 7 days mentioned. The fourth day Christ put to death, death. So that All mankind could be made in His image, and His likeness. And one more thing to consider, The word "man" in Gen 1:26 is without the Art. so means "mankind". In Gen 2: This word "man" has both the Art. and the Part. Making it "The man Adam". All ordained By our Father before it ever began.

Just for consideration Very Happy

Blessings







Last edited by Scherryl on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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3 Re: Was the fall a fall after all? on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:45 pm

LindaY


These discussions are really getting very good! I'm listening!

4 Re: Was the fall a fall after all? on Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:26 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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If I may be so bold, this goes along with what I mentioned in another thread when I mentioned "let there be light" as "let ther be understanding"

If we look at the original words, the heavens (lofty) and the earth (firm) we can understand pride and humbleness, and this understanding comes through the understanding of light (let there be light)and darkness (the separation of light and darkness).

When we understand this, we understand "above and below", "life and death" that the way up is the way down, we have to go into the darkness in order to understand the milk of it and then we are brought into the light to understand the meat of darkness, thereby we are now capable of understanding the meat of life.

There is no grey area with God, it only exists in men (seeing dimly), the understanding of the knowledge of good and evil is understanding black and white; what is righteous and what is unrighteous; it is understanding opposites and the purpose of each of them.

The purpose of the so-called fall was by design, we had to fall into darkness so that we would recognize the light and it is by that recognition we come to know the Father, the wisdom of the Father through us understanding both.

The purpose of darkness is to understand light, the purpose of light is to understand the Father. In other words, the purpose of evil is to understand good, and the purpose of good is to understand God.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

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