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The Transference of Wealth

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26 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:34 pm

Patrick1


Great answer Sheila:

I was thinking along the same lines when I wrote what I did.  Thanks for bringing it out.

It really is not how much you know but how much you flow with the spirit in you and speak and do what he is saying and doing.  When we do that we are allowing the oneness of god in us to shine forth for all the world to see and when they begin to see that oneness they will know that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus and he loves us who are flowing out of their oneness with him.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. 
(Joh 17:20-26 KJV)

Grace and peace Patrick

27 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:44 am

todosan


Hi Folks,
 
Touching base on this one...
 
Really the point of my thread was not about identifying what riches are, but there has been some very good points on that. My point was more about identifying where we are at today in the progression of the kingdom of God.
 
Of all the topics in the church, money seems to be one the most maligned. Jesus taught about money continuously, and there are so many examples where things get aligned with Kingdom purpose and there is a flow of propvision for the purposes of God.  I will suggest that one reason there is so much need in the church is because there is so much misalignment with His will.
 
I once was in relationship with a famous church leader. He would get paid like $20,000 to speak on a Sunday morning. His sermons were progressive and awakening. He truly had a gift, but that was not to be forever. When it came time for his ministry to become truly apostolic, he had a tendency to force his control over things. He bought a very large ranch and placed a ministry center on the property. Things fell on hard times. They took advantage of many of the followers. The SEC was after him. Its a long story. One story I last heard of him, he was tormented by the bill collectors.
 
The greater discovery here is that money is powerful to accomplish many tasks. It is required for many programs and efforts, however, God is not going to add power to perversion. The greater the wealth, the greater the submission to God, and I am specifically talking about money. I can see places in my friend's walk where he went wrong and he refused to listen to any counsel. There were always the accusers and he couldn't discern between and accusation and a correction.
 
If we are to be trusted with wealth, we must forge our submission to Him in a greater capacity. The heighth of authority is eqaul to the depth of submission. Selah.

28 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:23 am

Rosered


Hi Todosan , you made me think of Luke 16 ,  this one always  ''got to me ''
 
  Its the unprofitable servant    , is the modern   prosperity preachers ? of todays times
 
  they guilt you into ''paying for what you owe God ''   you give a little and get back alot
 
  what gets me is  verse  8  why is the children of Light  not shrewd in dealings with  unrightousness and  righteousness ?   waiting for  GOD to do it ? 
 
  not sure if this is even what you mean Todd , but this has bothered me for a long , long time now
 
 Luke
The Parable of the Clever Steward
16 Jesus also said to the disciples, “There was a rich man who was informed of accusations that his manager was wasting his assets. So he called the manager in and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Turn in the account of your administration, because you can no longer be my manager.’ Then the manager said to himself,


 ‘What should I do, since my master is taking my position away from me? I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m too ashamed to beg. I know what to do so that when I am put out of management, people will welcome me into their homes.’ So he contacted his master’s debtors one by one. He asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’


 The man replied, ‘A hundred measures of olive oil.’ The manager said to him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and write fifty.’ Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ The second man replied, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ The manager said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’ The master commended the dishonest manager because he acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their contemporaries than the people of light. And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by how you use worldly wealth, so that when it runs out you will be welcomed into the eternal homes.
10 “The one who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and the one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you haven’t been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will entrust you with the true riches? 12 And if you haven’t been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

29 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:17 pm

todosan


Not sure if I totally understand your questions, but a great reference in my opinion.

Let's talk prosperity for a second. It (prosperity) very well may not be the point of what is happening in our time, but prosperity is just as valid a biblical doctrine as any other. What man does with it... well that is another thing altogether.

This concept started with me one day during a conversation. The Kingdom of God is very different than the experiences we have had in the natural. There are many things about the realm of the spirit that do not apply to the natural in a like for like fashion. First, you don't die. Second, God is the provider. Third, the created spiritual realm vastly out measures the natural world. And so on. What we esteem as people in the earth does not carry the same importance in the spiritual realm. This is why our thoughts are not necessarily his thoughts, especially when we begin walking with Him.

Anyway, all the waste in the natural realm of money simply reflects the heart of man. It is not merely money though, but anything man idolizes. All those roads lead to disaster in some measure. When I was considering the Kingdom however, the things that God has said would soon come seemed to be impossible without some change in the way money was used. That was a very natural look at things, but the vast majority of believers still derive every thought from that natural dimension, so it remains important for the time being. I began to see that God would set purpose in his people and then begin to prepare them to receive the resources to accomplish His will in that regard. A great transferance of wealth would someday occur for His people, but this would also be connected to Kingdom authority. Anything short of that, people would merely revert back to the ways before. It would require real revelation of the will of God.

In church, the money subject was abused beyond comprehension. I have not even seen the worst abuses, but what I have seen makes me want to vomit. There is no way God could prosper us if we behaved like that. This is the reason why most Kingdom authority is hidden from the church at large. They are not even aware of what is going on behind the scenes, nor will they likely become aware. They can go on soliciting tithes week to week hoping enough people show up for the service to build that new wing.... but I digress. It is a disgusting thing to take a Kingdom truth and make a heresy out of it. They will receive their reward in full as all things are revealed.

Reaping and sowing, giving, etc... all these things are good. But when the leaders cross over to paying dues to be a Christian, well they no longer possess a heart after God. The Lord will eventually deliver those victims up out of that system and the leaders will fall to the bottom, wondering why everything collapsed around them. They may never know.

The sons of light... well I am not sure the Lord is saying here that being shrewd is the best way to go. I believe He is saying that the shrewd servant valued life and relationship more than money, and that was commendable. Both this passage and the following one about Lazarus are directly impactful on the religious jew standing there listening. In the parallel sense, the Rich man was natural Israel and Lazarus is a gentile (dog). Those who chose the blessing of God in the form of wealth over the purposes of God, would find themselves last instead of first. The wealth itself is irrelevant. It is the heart that matters.

30 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:20 pm

Rosered


If you confess your sins he is faithful and just to forgive us 
Oh to be more like him



Last edited by Rosered on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

31 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:39 pm

Rosered


Todosan wrote:
Anyway, all the waste in the natural realm of money simply reflects the heart of man. It is not merely money though, but anything man idolizes. All those roads lead to disaster in some measure. When I was considering the Kingdom however, the things that God has said would soon come seemed to be impossible without some change in the way money was used. That was a very natural look at things, but the vast majority of believers still derive every thought from that natural dimension, so it remains important for the time being. I began to see that God would set purpose in his people and then begin to prepare them to receive the resources to accomplish His will in that regard. A great transferance of wealth would someday occur for His people, but this would also be connected to Kingdom authority. Anything short of that, people would merely revert back to the ways before. It would require real revelation of the will of God

you made an excellent point here 
 exposing the hearts of men , motive
  I have aways thought of ''money ''   as empty promises !   vanity nothing to back it up !  gold in some vault   ha !  
 how do you measure wealth ?   I have seen many with money in the bank only to have it dissappear    without a trace ? like those with retirment funds 
 you made me think of the image in Dan 2  that Image of an IDOL  [man]   and kingdoms run by  men
head of Gold  seen as mens truth  chapter 2     lion chapter 7   kingdom  Babylon 
chest and arms of silver  as mens righteousness  bear chapter 7  Media-Persia 
Belly and thighs of bronze  mens judments  leopard  ch 7  Greece 
legs  of iron and toes mixed with clay /divison   fourth beast   ch7 Rome  all of religious captivity , making prisoners to serve their cause  ,  building them up  to fall  greatly
  this Image of mans gold / truth and mans  righteousness  and mans  judgments and mans  strength   will be  cut off and scattered to the  4 winds as dust on the thresing floors
 
  Itsthis image  a ROCK , Stone  not made with hands  ,  Jesus with the Truth  head of Gold 
 and righteous   arms of salvation the silver  and  judgments and strength  , its His rod of Iron / strength that  stikes our  strenghth and flesh  that  scatters us , only to be gatherd as empty  to be built by His Spirit and truth  , Jesus comes to destroy this image in our minds eye , that sits on the throne of our hearts   that  man of sin  that saves himself  calling it God and all that is called God , it is forever a shattered image
 I do want to apologize for not being clear , this has always been a problem for me  and why I do leave  in silence   , I do have trouble  being clear 
 thanks though for your input and this discussion  , you have made some excellent points, and   taken !!

32 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:46 pm

Rosered


I forgot  ,
Gods  wealth , the gold/truth  silver /righteousness and bronze/judgments  and Iron /strength    and  Oil/Holy   Spirit  are sure promises !   this wealth can never be destroyed when God builds  His Kingdom though His Son
more thoughts  come , as far as the powers and principaliteis in High places  go
  what is seated in our hearts  and what  makes us motivated  to act on  what is ruling
  the Lord God or mammon
prin·ci·pal  (prns-pl)
adj.
1. First, highest, or foremost in importance, rank, worth, or degree; chief. See Synonyms at chief.
2. Of, relating to, or being financial principal, or a principal in a financial transaction.
n.
1. One who holds a position of presiding rank, especially the head of an elementary school or high school.
2. A main participant in a situation.
3. A person having a leading or starring role.
4.
a. The capital or main body of an estate or financial holding as distinguished from the interest or revenue from it.
b. A sum of money owed as a debt, upon which interest is calculated.
5. Law
a. A person who empowers another to act as his or her representative.
b. The person having prime responsibility for an obligation as distinguished from one who acts as surety or as an endorser.
c. One who commits or is an accomplice to a crime.
6. Arcprin·ci·ple  (prns-pl)
n.
1. A basic truth, law, or assumption: the principles of democracy.
2.
a. A rule or standard, especially of good behavior: a man of principle.
b. The collectivity of moral or ethical standards or judgments: a decision based on principle rather than expediency.
3. A fixed or predetermined policy or mode of action.
4. A basic or essential quality or element determining intrinsic nature or characteristic behavior: the principle of self-preservation.
5. A rule or law concerning the functioning of natural phenomena or mechanical processes: the principle of jet propulsion.
6. Chemistry One of the elements that compose a substance, especially one that gives some special quality or effect.
7. A basic source. See Usage Note at principal.
Idioms:
in principle
With regard to the basics: an idea that is acceptable in principle.
on principle
According to or because of principle.
hitecture Either of a pair of inclined timbers forming the sides of a triangular truss for a pitched roof.

  you know Jesus come to heal   the mentally ill  , He was the great phycisian
 
   we stuggle with mental illness at one time of the other in our lives , my dad said  once to  comfort me , beause I told Him dad I think I am going crazy  !
 
   its from trying to serve God and mammon  lol   we cannot do this without the   flaw of mental illness
 
  That  is what I see this old family  member doing plain as day !  using the church folks for the sob story   and  asking whomever will help her out    and if you dont     help her out ,  Well  you get to pack your bags  , your going on a ''guilt trip ''

33 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Rosered


How will the Kingdom of God  function   forever and ever
 
  will the  days of flesh end  totally 
 you thinking is High
  I was still ''stuck '' the earthly realm  Sad

34 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:20 pm

todosan


Rose, thanks for writing... Hey I am just stepping in the waters to see what is next. Don't think for a second I understand what I am writing about...LOL I am on a mission to learn.... I am very serious about this actually.
 
Well, first let's move away from the doctrinal flaws of forever and ever. These are loose and incorrect interpretations of aonian (eon) language. The Lord used time bound words to describe periods of time that we would see different measures of manifestation in. The Kingdom comes during an age. It is often referred to as the eon of eons. That is the exact interpretation. It is the age that is the culmination of the other ages prior. The Kingdom of God, as I understand it today, begins to connect in a much greater and tangible way in the Kingdom Age. There are a couple of distinct signs to look for.
 
1) Godly, earth friendly, technologies will be revealed.
2) People will have much greater access to the spiritual realms in obedience to Christ.
3) The government of God will be established, replacing the corruption of Babylon.
4) The military complex will become pointless, and disappear.
5) The true peace of the Lord will come.
6) The sons of God will establish the government of God.
7) The currency of that Age will be faith.
Cool Those heavenly patterns will become manifest in the earth.
 
The days of flesh? Do you mean will people still sin? Let's see what the bible says.
 
1 Cor 15:25... for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
the last enemy is done away -- death;
 
So this reigning period comes in the Kingdom Age, although arguably, it is the church age also. (At the beginning of the church age Christ received the scepter. At the beginning of the Kingdom Age, he receives the birthright or the right to rule) Nevertheless, His reign continues until the enemies are done away with, even to the end of this coming Kingdom age. The very last one is death, of course and we know death comes from sin.
 
James 1:15
 
afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.
  
So I would suggest that until death is done away with, sin will exist which is the works of the flesh.
 
Romans 7:5
for when we were in the flesh, the passions of the sins, that are through the law, were working in our members, to bear fruit to the death;
 
To me, this law is religion in our day. It is rules and regulations to live by that are apart from Christ. There are alot of them and they permeate both the church and our thinking in our secret life. In Christ, however, I fulfill the law first by being imputed His righteousness, and then by walking it out in faith until I have been transformed by a renewing of my mind. Glory! Yes, my passions have led to sin and eventually those transgressions have worked death in my members. BUT CHRIST is faithful. Even as I have decayed in my wilderness, He has come to set me free from this law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus overcomes this death, and to each person this is appointed a time of fulfillment. And now my favorite verse in the whole bible.
 
1 Corinthians 15:22

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

35 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:45 pm

Rosered


Todosan wrote:
The days of flesh? Do you mean will people still sin? Let's see what the bible says.

 no    not at all  Todosan  I was thinking more of when God be all in All 
no  flesh at all       except the  spiritual bodies .more of the end of all earthly existance

 I never have  looked past the   realm of Christ  being  Lord /Master ruler of the dead and Living making them alive , and presented to  God ..lol   
So this is a new dimension   for me I am seeing those already  past from death to Life [INCHRIST]  
  but helping out now   with the earthly realm /us       why more revelation is here than in  ages past
 
 as the  Light/knowledge  increases  ,
  So your going beyond    what I could ever  even  imagine ! ha ha
 and have  no idea what the Kingdom of God is becoming
 Its exciting to even ponder ,  but  my sister said  she was   seeing   colors that  this world does not even fathom  or comprehend  and connection  of Love and viberation  of Oneness   that she has never known in this life
  she was dying of a brain tumor   , so I kind of wondered if that  in and out was part of her seeing beyond this realm or just the brain tumor  misfiring in her brain , I dont doubt her , but I cannot    understand  that part either , not ever experiencing  that   yet
  I keep an open mind  though

36 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:54 pm

Rosered


a realm of Love without pain and sorrow and suffering and sin , is somthing to look forward to Paul said its not even imaginable   the glory  in store for those who Love Him [God ]


 He went into a 3rd heaven paradise   
 If it was Paul  or somone he knew , not certain     but this man   was not able to even speak of these things in the present   time


12 It is necessary to go on boasting. Though it is not profitable, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak.

37 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:07 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Hi Sis,

I think the reference to the "Third Heaven" is related to....The Third section of the Tabernacle.....Which is none other than The Holy of Holies.....This is in keeping with The Pattern....

Notice the mention of "in the body or Out of the body by Paul....?

I would definitely think he was "out of the body".....because no flesh was to pass beyond the second veil in the Tabernacle....when in the very presence of God...

And since Jesus Christ'st flesh was The Veil that was rent for us now.....I think Paul was the first to experience.... The New and Living way that we have all been able to enjoy for a long time now....I believe this is where Revelation takes place...."The Third Heaven....

That's why Paul could write this.....

Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 
Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 

Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

38 Re: The Transference of Wealth on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:21 pm

Rosered


Yes your right , I knew that ARTIC , but need to be reminded  because I  get  a bit lost  at times Sis  thats great  ,  Thank you so much !

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