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Freedom in Christ

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76 Re: Freedom in Christ on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:34 pm

cross-eyed

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Ah, but this does open a can of worms . . ."why" would John have to turn around at all? Clearly, he was not consciously decided where his awareness was to surface. One moment, he was on Patmos, the next, he was taken up into the spirit and . .oh, by the way . . . if the voice was "behind" him, and the next thing described is Christ as the candlestick . . .then doesn't that mean that John was originally facing the shewbread?

But to my original question . . . why the need to turn at all? Why wouldn't John just have become aware that he was facing the candlestick in the first place? He "heard" the voice but could not "see" it without turning.

And just for clarification, I wasn't trying to indicate "John" was misaligned and needed to repent . . .I was saying that the church John represents is facing the wrong way. It's the same pattern when Peter was rebuked for using his sword destructively as an attempt to "defend" Christ. Peter represents the church which demands proof to explain why one believes whatever it is they believe. And if they're seeing different things, the gloves come off and the swinging begins. They feel they must use the Sword to "defend" their stance when that wasn't the intention of the Sword's use at all.

And I was wondering if you could simplify it a little more where you said that John is not in the church . . . are you just saying that his physical body isn't in the church? Or the place that these things are unfolding in are not the church?? Just curious.

77 Re: Freedom in Christ on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:45 pm

todosan


I am more or less saying that church is a means to a greater ends. John was graduating church, so to speak, which enabled him to see the hidden things and report them. By not being in the church any longer, he was beyond the purpose of the church, now entering the spirit.

78 Re: Freedom in Christ on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:47 pm

todosan


Peter is an interesting comparison. The only place I see Peter being symbolic of something beyond the church is the mount of transfiguration. This likewise that is the glory of God and the promised land (the two things Moses wanted to see)

79 Re: Freedom in Christ on Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:26 pm

Long2JC

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David asks "Indeed, will anyone apply for the position of 'treasurer' if they do not love money?"

My answer is a definite yes. Money is only one form of God's provision. Like "time" money is a provision of this realm. We are all stewards of Gods provision.

Due to the structure of this realm, some are stewards of the provisions that God has given them and some are stewards of the storehouses. To insure the integrity of Gods provision there needs to be godly stewards (treasurer) of the storehouses. Rest assured that the temptation to abuse this position is in place just as it is with any of Gods gifts. For me the area in this realm, that has the potential for abuse is the area of God’s revelations to man.

Some things are revealed in time others are revealed in Eternity.

80 Re: Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:08 am

Guest


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Long2JC wrote:My answer is a definite yes.

I so hope that you're correct. It seems to me that I'm hoping for such a job myself when these currencies reset, when the current "river" is diverted. I just hope that my motivations are right in this, and that it will be Him Who guides my every decision in the stewardship of His wealth.

81 Re: Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:35 am

cross-eyed

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todosan wrote:Peter is an interesting comparison. The only place I see Peter being symbolic of something beyond the church is the mount of transfiguration. This likewise that is the glory of God and the promised land (the two things Moses wanted to see)

Hmm . . . at the mount of transfiguration, you see Peter as being something "beyond" the church? I'm getting lost in the fragments of what's being said I guess. For me, Peter, James and John all three symbolize the heart of the church that was enabled to see the true nature of Christ. All 12 disciples represent the followers of Christ as a whole, the combination of the religious leaders and the 12 disciples represent the entire body . . . but only a fragment are enabled to see the intimacy within the heart of God.

I see Moses and Elijah there due to what they represent as well, being the law and the prophets, the stone tablets and Aaron's staff and Christ as the manna . . .

They were all in an "elevated/ascended" place when the revelation of Jesus manifested, much like the upper room being numbered at 120 . . .the same number of years where man would no longer wrestle with the things of God in Genesis 6. But I still see them to be "of" the church, the living stones that make up the body of the church. It's just not the same type of church our minds are accustomed to being assimulated with.

82 Re: Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:45 pm

cross-eyed

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I just posted chapter 3 of Revelation today. At this stage in my life, I really couldn't tell you what it is I've received from others and what I have seen within my own spirit on so many of these matters. Which I'm sure you're all the same on that one. But in posting the chapter, I realized that this idea of John turning was not my own revelation of sorts. It may feel like it to me due to the fact that I'd embraced it, but Randall speaks to it in this particular tape. And now that I think of it, my very first experience of listening to Mark Hanby was from a video he'd done entitled "The Voice Behind Me . . ." It was the launching pad that catipulted me into the dimensions and realms of God at the very beginning.

Anyway, perhaps as you read through tape three on this issue, it may be a little clearer than my attempts to explain it this far. Very Happy Very Happy

83 Re: Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:29 pm

todosan


I totally get the parallel that you are drawing here.... no problem with it whatsoever, but there is a distiction that doesn't settle with me. The angles sort of rebuked the disciples for standing there looking up (the wrong way), but there really is no rebuke that I can tell in the passage in Revelation.

It kind of plays out like he got to this place in the spirit (the Lord's Day - the third room) and Jesus is standing where there are candlesticks in the second. The Lord never really tells John to turn around, but he does to see where the voice is coming from. I think it is an error to think that this is a repentance. What was the transgression? I don't know unless he is looking the wrong way...but everything seems to be that he is about to embark on something totally hidden until this time.

He hears the voice first and the voice merely says to write down what he sees and send it to the churches, where the Lord is standing. Kind of like today's prophets who see things in the spirit and proclaim it to the churches where Jesus is.

The only other command I see it come up hither, but that is not until the forth chapter after the message to the church has been given. It says "After these things" meaning the church dispensation. Then John is translated in some manner to the throne room through a door (Christ???), which is obviously the third room where there is a throne in the tabernacle (the tabernacle is a copy of the heavenly one).

Arguably, the church age does not end because John is moving on and Jesus is still standing with His church. I tend to think that the church age is a phase of learning and growth where we learn fellowship with men, but there is much more beyond that. A whole room beyond, which is where Christ is enthroned. Actually He is in all three rooms at once if we want to be technical.

Ok, great discussion. I have to do some more thinking on this. It actually troubles me greatly now, because I am realizing that I took a lot things for granted that were not necessarily "revealed" to me. They were merely taught... and this excites greatly.

84 Re: Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm

cross-eyed

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You kind of solidified it even more with your reference to the fact that the angels spoke to REDIRECT the attention of those standing there gazing up into the clouds.

John is spiritually representing those same people/the church by the fact that he is positioned facing the wrong direction. All repentance is, is turning around . . .changing how you think. There's no condemnation or rebuke taking place, it's just a necessary part of the alignment. You have to turn your face . . .my face is my identity . . ."toward" the light source to allow your"self" to "see".

I see this as the same exact pattern that Jesus revealed in the wilderness when he was alone with his own carnality (satan) and the same when he rebuked Peter, we call it rebuke, but all he was doing was, realigning. "Get thee behind me . . ." That's a call of alignment between spirit and flesh.

In 2 Corinthians 10 Paul puts it another way by saying we're to have the Spirit in us take captive our thoughts . . .satan get behind me . . .John, turn around . . .redirect your attention . . .it's all the same pattern. But it's a necessary one required to transpire before the nature of Christ can be seen.

Someone said a while back that as you approach the tabernacle, you had to acknowledge each veil and article as you progressed through the process leading to the mercy seat. There's an order in which things need to be in place for which the anointing can flow freely. When our beastly nature is in control, it dams up the flow of revelation, relationship and freedom. It's not that those things don't still exist, it's just that our sinful nature . . .our inability to walk "in" the mark keeps us from seeing and hearing anything other than what lies on the surface. We live in the obvious. Only faith can see what lies beneath. But natural logic and godly faith are always at odds.

There had to be a turning. There is no other reason why, when John was caught up in the spirit, that he would be placed with his back to Christ. It was symbolizing where the church is. Yeah, it's in the second dimension all right . . .and most churches live as though the veil is still in place rather than seeing two dimensions have become one through the power of the cross . . .literally.

And I can soooo relate to your last thought . . . how much of what we think we know, have we received through personal revelation, as opposed to the teaching of others? Flesh and blood can not teach us personal unveilings of Christ IN US. No matter how spiritual they are. Until we experience it within our own wombs, we'll always be aunts and uncles, but seldom Fathers of the ofspring of direct communion with the Father himself.

I used to say that a lot. I can't teach what is to only be experienced. But I can teach patterns that lead people to their own revelation. Seeing a spiritual picture is taking it inwardly. The Eve IN ME . . .the Adam IN ME . .. the womb IN ME . .the garden .IN ME . ..The kingdom of heaven doesn't come by observation . . .it's IN ME.

That's why this particular forum is such a special one. If I can hang on to the fact that the kingdom of heaven is in me, that allows me to let those that are in different rooms in the Father's house that see different things, to let this same kingdom be . . .in them without judgment, correction, reproof or condemnation.

That's why I kept throwing that out there about why Jesus never pulled Judas aside to try to straigten him out . . .regardless as to whether Judas was a cheat or a snitch, Grace was sufficient.

The church takes the word of God and uses it to correct, rebuke, condemn, admonish, teach, instruct . . .there's even a passage of Scripture that does indeed talk about this, but it's been misrepresented by many. It's not a church or religious leader that does the reproofing . . .it's the Word of God IN ME.

Now, therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

85 Freedom in Christ on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:50 pm

Hibbs


Enjoying the discussion...

John was granted a vision into the "unveiling" of Jesus Christ and was shown things in a figure that were going on from the beginning. He was seeing from the position of tabernacles and the point of his turning was to indicate that he was looking back into the church age from the age of tabernacles...the kingdom age. The letters to the seven churches are universal in application and can be applied as the process of overcoming...to him that overcomes will I... I agree with Todd about the mount of transfiguration. Peter immediately wanted to construct a "church". "Let's build three tabernacles." The significant thing to note was that the law and the prophets were both part of the transfiguration (Moses and Elijah) and are part of the growth and process. If Jesus is the spirit of prophecy and the fulfillment of the law, then the law and the prophets are still part of the necessary understanding of the kingdom. All three were part of God.

The word "church", ecclesia, has itself been so warped by tradition that we fail to see that there was a "called out" remnant in each place that was the "ecclesia" at Ephesus etc. Tradition suggests that we have joined a club rather than come out and become separate from the traditions of men and the leaven of religion. When we depart from the fear of what men think and what our debt system forces us to understand and we no longer have the mark of the beast (serving and thinking about employment or finances or what we will eat or put on, or where we will live, what type of car we drive) we find that we move from buying and selling to giving and receiving....receiving being the more humbling position.

The economy of heaven is totally different from the economy of this world and I have a fear that the dinar has been a test of the heart that has revealed a desire to be rich hidden in the heart of us all. I believe the greatest test is the test of wealth. Recalling that Judas was the keeper of the purse, he was conscious of the value of the alabaster box and caring for the poor. He sold out for 30 pieces of silver (salvation) which he later returned to the priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah....He came to His own and His own received Him not. It was Caiphas and his band at the temple that were responsible for Jesus' crucifixion...not Rome. How have we all denied Him? It was not just Peter that denied Him at Calvary but all of His disciples. Peter was just the most visible because he was so transparent....you never wondered what he was thinking. He took up a sword rather than the sword of the Lord and struck off an ear rather than opening it...Have we not all done the same in our zeal to be heard?

John was granted the vision from Patmos (the place of his killing) and tradition tells us that he had been boiled in oil but survived. We can never experience the reality of the kingdom through a mental lesson. It must be revealed within by the Spirit. To this point I believe that there are forerunners that have been as the twelve spies and that there are some of the spirit of Joshua and Caleb that hold that vision and promise within their hearts. For others, even though they have had glimpses of the heavenly vision and have tasted of the milk and honey of the promised land, they have been so conscious of the giants in the land that they are doubleminded and unstable. For those the day at hand is a day of fear and a desire to escape and for them death is the only answer. For those that have embraced the cross and suffered the loss of all things (nothing belongs to them) they are the radical material out of which David's band of misfits comes (and Gideon's 300). What can you do to a dead man?

Fear is the greatest and strongest bondage of all. There are many who fear the devil...hopefully we have come to "look upon him narrowly and ask: "Is this the man?" The fear of death holds many in captivity...look at the concern for medical coverage and the way that adds promote big pharmacy...purple pills and the like. Who among us has not allowed the evil report to impact on our liberty...think about the bondage that has come to our country because of terrorism...real or imagined. As we see the horses, and the bowls, and the woes contrasted against the throne around which the covenant is pictured by the rainbow and that the sea of humanity is as glass rather than storm tossed; we can begin to understand that our God is well able to defeat all of the giants that remain. Our Joshua leads us into the victory that tore the veil and stands as our anchor on the other side of the storm. He may be resting in our boat or walking on the water but whether He speaks to the wind or gets in the boat, we are assured of arriving on the other side. Faith takes us into His victory and makes substance out of hope. When He asked: "When I return, will I still find faith in the earth?" our answer should be a resounding Yes, Lord yes. For we know that what He has promised, He is well able to perform. I expect it for He said that He would produce and expected end and demonstrated again and again that what He has promised shall surely come to pass.

86 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:09 am

Long2JC

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I have been away for a while but I am sure enjoying catching up as I can. I love the statement "Fear is the greatest and strongest bondage of all." So many mountains remain in place and so many of God’s Revelations have been kept hidden by the silence of His messengers hindered by fear. Rest assured that the mountains will move and revelations will be released but His children here on this earth will continue in the prolonged suffering of looking through the shadows and haze instead of seeing pure light as they could be. Is not one man’s suffering and ridicule worth another man’s freedom. For suffering and ridicule are short lived for they only exist in this dimension, they are a creation from our sinful nature.

Have you ever consider what John was gazing at when his sight was diverted to the voice? Where he was being drawn to before he was drawn back? What was in front of John if Jesus’s voice was behind him? If Christ was behind him, did John then see his own shadow in front of him or was there no shadow at all?

I am not taking away from the revelatory discussion at hand regarding the actions that were taking place. I am referring to what the man was experiencing as he was being used as a vessel to present the Heart of God. It is so important utilize the time to enjoy the position we might find ourselves in while experiencing God’s hand upon our lives. Our Father so want us to enjoy every aspect of who He is and we can enjoy both being used by God and where we might find ourselves spiritually even if we are in way over our head. We are not single dimension beings, only our mind tries to convince us we can only participate in one thing at a time. It is when we can walk multi-dimensionally that we will experience the fullness of life that we were created to experience. This is where joy overtakes happiness.

87 Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:20 am

Hibbs


Walking multi-dimensionally...I believe that is more of a key than we realize. In the world but not of it. John was in the spirit. The whole issue of his turning was less of a physical thing than it was a matter of prophetic symbolism for the sake of the reader. The point was to show that his vision was from the perspective of completion rather than an eschatological end time treatise of a rebuilt temple replete with king antichrist. It was to show those things which must "shortly" come to pass (not to mention had already been passing).

We learn that this great voice was "as the voice of many waters" and came from the candlestick. While we realize that the candlestick was in the middle room, we also realize that Christ is the center stem and that it is a hammered work, made of one piece of gold and that the knop, flowers and buds add up to 66, the number of books in the Bible. The six stems have three dimensions and the center stem has four. Six being the number of man and four reflecting the four faces of God in Ezekiel's vision (the ox, the lion, the eagle and the man). The many waters are tributaries converging into one mighty river that flowed from under the temple (types and shadows echoing the same truth). Our voices are becoming His as our thoughts become His. While we are seated in the day of tabernacles (in the spirit on the Lord's day) we stand as a light in pentecost and labor to bring water to those still thirsting in Egypt.

For those imprisoned within their minds, freedom is an impossibility regardless of their circumstances. If, however, we have put on the mind of Christ and been translated into His kingdom, our circumstances are no longer our reality. We have been set free from the bondage of falling short and can now find ourselves hitting the mark of the high calling of Christ.

This morning while still in twilight between waking and sleep, the thought came that we are all lambs as well as sheep. We love the little lamb...so cute and cuddly. But unless that lamb has been led to slaughter and moves into the dimension of the lion, it only wants to frolic in the pasture. When the blood of the lamb has been sprinkled on the mercy seat in tabernacles, an atonement (at-one-ment) takes place. The blood of the covenant is spiritual blood and we have been transfused by faith in the blood of Calvary and the Garden so that we are now blood brothers with the lamb without spot, wrinkle or blemish.

While the church (organization rather than organism) age has passed and is closing. The real church is just beginning to stand up with "megas" voices of truth and one mind and one heart, manifesting as one man; not by might (individual strength) or by power (corporate agreement) but by my spirit says the Lord. This is the candlestick that John saw. This is the light set upon the hill of the Zion of God. This is what the whole world will turn to see.

88 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:49 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
Mark, that brought tears of joy to my eyes. You ever have one of those days that just start off so blessed that it is beyond words? All of you guys words are so precious to me, I get so blessed by them all, but sometimes one just seems to pop out like never before, and this was it for me so far today.

This is one of the most Freeing statements I have heard in a long time.

Quote:Mark

For those imprisoned within their minds, freedom is an impossibility regardless of their circumstances. If, however, we have put on the mind of Christ and been translated into His kingdom, our circumstances are no longer our reality. We have been set free from the bondage of falling short and can now find ourselves hitting the mark of the high calling of Christ.

WOW!!!

I just love you guys, how special it is to wake up in the morning and find such profound statements to carry throughout our day.

God Bless you all

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

89 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:22 am

todosan


That was the exact statement that popped out for me too.. I happen to be wrestling with something for a very long time and this was the answer. I was thinking like a broken man, and not like a new man.

90 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:32 pm

klm4jc


Okay, since 'putting on the mind of Christ' seems to be the key, perhaps then a little review is required.

What is the mind of Christ?

91 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:44 pm

todosan


Kevin !!!!!! Only you would ask that question....

Its a little floaty brain thingy...I am going to lunch... I don't know even where to start.

92 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:26 pm

cross-eyed

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Great question!!!
I think it's safe to say for one, it's living in a multi-dimensional experience with emphasis on spiritual status over natural realities. There's a saying I used to buy in with that goes something like, you can get too heavenly minded to be no earthly good. But I don't see it that way anymore. For me, for one to be heavenly minded is the key to manifesting earthly good. Christ purpose was to do the Father's will. I think John the Baptist was portraying what the mind of Christ "is" when he stated the famous quote "I must decrease that he may increase". Can't do that unless you have a contrite spirit . . .one that's been ground down to such a fine dust that the slightest breath upon it will cause it to stir. Humility, brokeness ... not being broken, but walking in brokeness. Actually, when we're able to walk in brokeness, it's the evidence of the fact that we're no longer broken. sunny

93 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:14 pm

klm4jc


I've often wondered if the mind of Christ was a perspective, and if so, what would that perspective be? Is it a way of seeing or perceiving something, perhaps seeing all things from the vantage point of the finished work? I think Mark was eluding to this earlier. What perspective did Christ have? Do we confuse the outward manifestation of the nature of Christ with the mind of Christ? For example, is walking in love an expression of His nature or is that the mind of Christ? I think they are two different things, perhaps one leads to the other but I don't think they are the same. I've heard it said that we should put on the mind of Christ and be kind, for example. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that if we had the mind of Christ, being kind would be an output of that. If that is the case, then what is the mind of Christ focused on, what is it "seeing"? Simply saying that the mind of Christ is that we should love one another seems to be missing something.

What was Christ thinking???????

94 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Guest


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Could it be that 'putting on the mind of Christ' means being fully submitted to His headship? Meaning that we have surrendered any 'right' we once may have reserved to hold onto our own opinions or way of seeing things?

John 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father 's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 “ This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.

95 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:11 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
I gotta go with Kevin on this one, I believe we sometimes confuse the mind of Christ with the sufferings and the brokenness of the flesh body that, "that Holy thing" walked in while in the earth.

If we look at Prov. 8, and John 17, we will see that there was no reason to be broken, corrected, rebuked, purged, humbled etc. etc. all of those things has to do with us that He partook of while in the flesh here on earth.

Christ is the Anointed one of God, or The Anointing of God, it is the mind of God, the way He see's things, it is clutter free of flesh, and Carnal thoughts, it understands those things, but is never swayed from The Purpose, The End from the Beginning.

It never doubts, or gets stressed, it's focused always on "Purpose". It changes NOT. Because He changes NOT.

It is not a man, it is the Anointed Mind of God and this is what overcame the World.

Blessings

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

96 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:45 pm

klm4jc


Scherryl wrote:

Christ is the Anointed one of God, or The Anointing of God, it is the mind of God, the way He see's things, it is clutter free of flesh, and Carnal thoughts, it understands those things, but is never swayed from The Purpose, The End from the Beginning.


Ah...never swayed from The Purpose......I like that. He knew before He went to the cross, what His purpose was. He swore to His own hurt and did not change (Ps 15). Perhaps the mind of Christ for us is to be focused on our identity being found in Him and the revelation of His life in us as He appears to us. Did not our brother pray that we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus? Why would he want us to grow in the knowledge of Him? In knowing Him do I know myself? Allowing His Spirit to transform us into the image that we behold as we rest from our own labors to do so?

I think everyone here echos 'the way He see's things', which is a beautiful picture of understanding our purpose in Him.

97 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:56 pm

todosan


Reflecting back to what Mark wrote, I have a couple of thoughts...I do not believe that the key to manifesting Christ is merely realization (he didn't say that). If it were, then we would have methods to do so and teaching would be far more effective than it is.

I DO believe that Mark was on to something huge and cutting edge, which seems enticing to go further!!!

Nathan wrote:
I used to say that a lot. I can't teach what is to only be experienced. But I can teach patterns that lead people to their own revelation. Seeing a spiritual picture is taking it inwardly. The Eve IN ME . . .the Adam IN ME . .. the womb IN ME . .the garden .IN ME . ..The kingdom of heaven doesn't come by observation . . .it's IN ME.

Mark Wrote:
If, however, we have put on the mind of Christ and been translated into His kingdom, our circumstances are no longer our reality. We have been set free from the bondage of falling short and can now find ourselves hitting the mark of the high calling of Christ.

Nathan reminded us:
I must decrease that He might increase.

Notice the order of what John said… We must decrease first. These are the souls that lose their heads “who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”.
For a long time I have understood that God has no issue with our body. It is the flesh that the bible speaks carefully of. The natural physical is really for nothing, it is the renewing of our mind that counts for everything. The mind/the soul/the will/the emotions actually are not put to death per say, they are transformed. Into what? The Mind of Christ, of course.

Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Is not the perfect will of God the very thing that our minds are being renewed to look like? Is it that simple? So the inworking of the Spirit of Christ is the way this is done, but what does it look like?

1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 Cor 13 :4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails
.

So let me write this again, substituting one verse in the other…
Jesus Christ suffers long and is kind; Jesus Christ does not envy; Jesus Christ does not parade himself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Jesus Christ never fails.

Just sitting here looking at this, I don’t think I could better describe the mind of Christ than what Paul wrote.

Mark also wrote:

The real church is just beginning to stand up with "megas" voices of truth and one mind and one heart, manifesting as one man; not by might (individual strength) or by power (corporate agreement) but by my spirit says the Lord. This is the candlestick that John saw. This is the light set upon the hill of the Zion of God. This is what the whole world will turn to see.

I think what is happening here on this forum is very similar to what you wrote Mark. Deep down inside many of us are horribly injured and broken, but all of that was for a reason. The lord was clear that if we did not pick up our own cross and follow Him, we really did not have a part with him. The sharing of the good times is easy, but sharing in the suffering with Christ, well that will test your metal. Now, we are way beyond what I thought was going to happen when I signed up (meaning salvation). I had no idea that it would go this long and this deep and this hard and touch this many aspects of my life. But something strange has transpired.

When I was a teenager I rebelled….dramatically. I was hell on wheels. Angry, bitter, hateful, vengeful, full of poison. I remember despising the church and the Lord for that matter. Wanted NOTHING to do with any good two shoes.
Now, 27 years later, I find it sort of strange. I find myself easily in agreement with the Lord, regardless of the state of my own life. It is peaceful, and pleasant to me. The thought of agreeing with God is attractive to me for a reason I cannot explain. I think He is really great. I sure wish I knew Him better.
So since I cannot explain the change in my thinking, I just kind of take it for granted. When I do think about it, I thank Him, but it doesn’t come up all that often.

Point is that I am still a long ways from 1 Cor 13, but progress is happening. I am moving toward it, and not away…
How’d you like my definition anyways? I thought it was pretty clever, but I really didn’t know what to write when I started, so chances are it wasn’t from me….LOL

98 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:32 pm

klm4jc


I like your definition Todd, along with everyone's. As you know, I am certain I don't have any answers.

When you quoted Rom 12:2, what I saw was that when we are transformed by the renewing of our mind, we prove what is the acceptable and perfect will of God. This will is summed up by what you further quote in regards to love, love is the manifestation of the will of God. There seems to me to be a difference between the 'mind of Christ' and the proving what His will is. 'We have put on the mind of Christ and been translated in His kingdom'....to be sure. It's this mind that allows for us to not just live in the spirit but so walk in the spirit. I too don't think it is just a matter of 'realization' and don't mean to infer that, it's more of acceptance. Yielding to the inevitable in our lives. If we accept our identity and the purpose of the manifestation of God's will through us, then we can as mature adults yield to the outworking of salvation through us. I sometimes wonder if that isn't what Jesus did. Did he know when he was 2 that he was the son of God? Or did he hear stories from his mother and father about the day the holy spirit hovered over her, or when the angles appeared unto them? Was his mind merely open in godlike fashion to the revelation of Himself through the law and the prophets so that he understood his destiny, purpose and will of the Father? Is this the mind of Christ? He accepted with complete conviction that He was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world and his way to Jerusalem was made very straight, there was no other course. He was meant to manifest the will of God and accepted that. As a result, he demonstrated in the earth the perfect will of God.

As you can see, many more questions versus answers. I certainly don't mean to dominate the conversation here, just looking for some clues :-)

99 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:32 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Todd, that was so Good on so many different levels you have no idea.

Your right I think all of us here has been broken and come through the fire in such a way that testifies of His Glory in our own nature now. I absolutely love the way we share Him with one another. When I was still in the church, ...and the pastor would say something like, ..does anyone want to testify....and I remember always being offended by it. I thought it's not about you, and what God gave you this week, it's not about your new car, and all the carnal things that would be mentioned, it's not even about your physical healing, It's about HIM!!! It's His testimony that sets us free, It's His testimony that is the Spirit of Prophecy....Not realizing at the time why this upset me so, but now, when I see and hear the Testimony of Christ within this group, I fully understand why I was so offended back then. This is what it's all about, His life within us as individuals coming together and partaking of Him, as the Bread and The Wine, this is Truly dinning on Him.

I've always known, that those trees in the Garden, "where meant to be eaten from". You guys are those Trees in the Garden that we were "To Freely eat of", why because they had been eating from the source of their Life which was, the Tree of Life Himself. This is The Testimony of Christ, this is what the guy saw when Jesus spit on the ground and made clay and put it on his eyes, and he seen ...Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. Don't ya just Love the Word? Cool

Trees of Righteousness, The Planting of The Lord.

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100 Re: Freedom in Christ on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:33 pm

cross-eyed

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For the same reasons Todd has shared about not being able to explain his Rest in God ... I can't explain my reasons for saying and sensing this either, but this particular thread has been one of my favorite so far. Every one of you have spoken small but what you've shared has enlarged itself within me.

I enjoy you.

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