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1 Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 10:44 am

Guest


Guest
I am transplanting this topic here from the "Two Tables" topic so we can give it appropriate thought...as we share God's Truth.

Here is the dialogue that initiated this topic "Salvation and Sinning"

=============
Patrick, wrote...

"" Sin no longer is a question or an issue for those who come fully to know the Christ nature in them. we are born again of an incorruptible seed and his seed remains in us and we absolutely do not have the power to sin and as we live by that incorruptible seed in us we cannot sin However there is another seed growing in us and He can sin. We are not the tare we are the wheat.""


===================
John Wrote:

I want to make sure I am not missing your point. It seems like you are saying we cannot sin when born again. Yet you also seem to be saying the other "seed growing in us...the tare (flesh/carnal man by inference)" can sin. I want to understand your point clearly before I respond.

If I fairly assessed your point thus far, then the second question would be, What type of sin are you talking about..."pre-meditated/willful sin" or "unknown/unintentional sin" (such as a snap reaction in anger)?

I think this is an important point of interest for all of us and I would like to offer thoughts...but wanted to make sure I am hearing you first.

Your Brother,
John

==================

ARTIC WROTE

Hi John,

What I have come to understand is that sin is a "Nature"... and that Nature has been changed in us by The Divine Nature of The Son...

Sin is not something we do...but who we have been told we are from the beginning and that Not of God...

When we are awakened by The Holy Spirit out of our slumber....we come to realize He has been in us all along...and now can begin to be formed in us....this is what John means when he says that those born of God "cannot sin" for His Seed remains in them and they cannot sin...because Jesus paid the full price for the demand of The Law that Accused us before the Father....for the wages of sin is Death...

So when The Father looks at us He sees us in Christ, not as man sees but as God sees....
We should have no more sin conscientiousness because of what He has done.....and this He done for All....it's just all don't know it.....this is The Good News of Gospel...

The Carnal man looks at the Law and sees Himself and is ashamed....But when seen through the eyes of The Son we see The Glorious God of All Creation and all His Attributes...

For the Father reveals The Son....and The Son reveals The Father....

Hope that helps..
Blessings

====

Would love to hear what the Spirit of Truth is telling others...Let's sharpen iron in the fire with love, humility...rightfully dividing the word in truth...

Your brother and servant, John

2 Strong Meat... on Wed May 29, 2013 10:50 am

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My bottom-line view: Salvation is hard to get and quite possible to lose; otherwise, God would not have said so. If we, as men, can decide the conditions of our salvation (and yet, more boldly, others’), why do we need Jesus at all? He is, and will be, the final judge for all of us and He is the Word. He says…judge nothing before it’s time!

Question for all of us is "Have we come to fully know Him?"...or better yet, "Do we even know Him at all?"...

1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I will let God speak for Himself through His Word… Scripture is perfect and cannot contradict itself.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I must obey God’s voice and instructions as one of His servants and apostles. I, like all true believers, was taught by Jesus Christ and not man…

Gelatians 1:8-11 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Hebrews 10:26-27 For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Revelation 3:4-5 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Revelation 3:15-17 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Acts 5:1-11[/color] Ananias and Sapphira (saved apostles) killed by God for lying to God.

This is a very important topic and I pray that God will speak to all of our hearts. I know we only want God’s will to be done in our lives and this world. I look forward to rightfully dividing the Word in truth with you…as we are encouraged by our Father to do "sow".

I am very OPEN to hear any scriptural basis for ANY opposing viewpoints. If I think I can see, I risk His blinding...

The flesh will ALWAYS strive to reveal itself.

Speak the word only...and thy servant shall be HEAL-ed...the feet of those that preach the gospel are beautiful to God. As we feed it to others, in the same measure shall we be fed. Let us become perfect harvest instruments for(4) our Master.

Your brother and servant,
John



Last edited by John W on Wed May 29, 2013 11:53 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : formatting)

3 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 11:56 am

Rosered




Hi John ,

I think I understand what your saying , not sure totally
But I know everyone needs Jesus Christ

I know to what Patrick is saying in this
when we center and focus on the Word /Jesus Christ to be obedient there are two types of death working in us , the Christ nature born of His Spirit in us does not sin
but the carnal nature in us does sin

the dying daily means the old man who resurects in us ,must be put to death by the Sword / Word of God [romans 7] and breath of His Coming [ Holy Spirit moving within us ] just as the Christ in us dies to the suffering in the same manner Christ suffered for the sins of many Matt 5 & 6
this is How both scriptures are true here

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

I dont want to make this post complicated
when you all get over my head , I have to clear out every thought
my battles are within
and struggles and trails and temptations show up in every day Life , I have learned not to run from God when overcome , but Run to God when overcome

that has made a huge difference for me personally

I have faith I am saved by the Blood of Jesus , but any good was all Him , I can only give Him the Glory and honor and Blessing acknowledging His power to perform miracles in some of the worst of circumstances that I have been a witness to partake in His signs for is to increase faith [tokens to save for future reffernce that God is working in our lives, all of us ] and Love for Him to save and help and change change the very course of nature of whom ever was in operation
In His Holy Peace Rose

4 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 12:15 pm

Rosered




Oh Yes very important here too ,


I love what ARTIC said to further clarify , those two natures the animal one[carnal instinct ] and the Holy One [all the attributes of the Heavenly Father done though Christ ]
no flesh pleases God [carnal nature ]
and without faith its impossible to please God [Christ nature ]

we go from faith to faith when your in the Body of Christ it becomes the greater works shall ye do because Jesus speaks of He went to the Father


Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

above verse we know its obedience to the Lord , He is the Head and all authority


we see here that it was Jesus faith given , our faith fails us His never fails !!

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

two types of sons in the faith of Abraham
as the sands of the sea shore
and those shining high above with Light of Christ in them

the sands of the sea shore are tiny little specks of rock seperated greatly and of little use alone with no light in them and grounded & earth bound to fail alone but are easily tossed by waves of wind /spirits we are to try and see if they are of God and the seas foaming in shame
those with the Light of Christ in them do shine in the dark places of night helping many to see out of the Darkness /ignorance [Daneil 12 ] and are dwelling on and in the things above

considering many scriptures here and I love that you all in this place know them well . Much blessings in Him

5 Two Questions on Wed May 29, 2013 12:30 pm

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Guest
Rose,

Ask yourself three questions when considering important spiritual topics/conflicts:

- How much fruit for the Kingdom (God)?

- How much fruit for Satan (anti-Christ)?

- Who was Jesus speaking to when He told the woman caught at adultery Go and sin no more? Was he talking to her spirit woman (which could never sin...and never did sin); or, Was He talking to her carnal woman that decided, with free-will, to have sex out of wedlock?

WE ARE THAT WOMAN! If we can't admit it, God will quickly teach us by dipping us in more and more evil until we figure it out.

Abraham's, Esau's, Sarah's, Mary's, the Nobleman's, the Centurion's, Elizabeth's...carnal men/women had to make the choice to believe and follow God's Word (Jesus) and then, and only then, would God/Jesus take away their sins.

If we haven't started walking, we are still prisoners and in slavery/bondage in Egypt to King Pharaoh.

If we have any conflict with these verses (God's Word/Jesus) it should tell you something about what He is asking you to do now.

The carnal man has to follow the carnal/natural word of God FIRST. No spiritual wisdom is required to understand what these verses mean. He said follow me 27 times in the new testament. Preach, deliver, heal, feed, clothe...this is not spiritual...this is straightforward. The spiritual/meat comes later. Strong meat when we follow Jesus/God's word.

2 Thes 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

WE ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF PERDITION....When we finally figure that out, we will fall on our face and repent zealously for our iniquities...and follow Him. Then he will part the Red Sea (US...carnal/spirit...carnal will bow down to spirit man)....and as we head REarWARD...back into the wilderness from whence we came, all of the demons from Hell will chase us (Pharaoh's Army)...and God will close the sea on our adversaries (our flesh/accuser)....BECAUSE we finally decided to MOVE our butts. Very Happy

With LOVE from Your brother,
John

6 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 1:28 pm

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Guest
John W wrote:

The carnal man has to follow the carnal/natural word of God FIRST. No spiritual wisdom is required to understand what these verses mean. He said follow me 27 times in the new testament. Preach, deliver, heal, feed, clothe...this is not spiritual...this is straightforward. The spiritual/meat comes later. Strong meat when we follow Jesus/God's word.


I have to disagree with your above assertion

Rom 8
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Also you mentioned possibly losing your salvation:

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John W wrote:Abraham's, Esau's, Sarah's, Mary's, the Nobleman's, the Centurion's, Elizabeth's...carnal men/women had to make the choice to believe and follow God's Word (Jesus) and then, and only then, would God/Jesus take away their sins.

Eph 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

They did not choose to believe they were given the faith to believe.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Not by the works of the law aka anything that comes from our flesh/law. How can dead men choose to live? Its impossible.

Blessings

Jeremy

7 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 4:44 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Jeremy
I have to disagree with your above assertion

I would too.. and also with losing our Salvation.

The transitional pattern of The Tabernacle is something we all need to go through...and in each place we do feel complete because we are.. until we are moved forward by His Grace and Love...

When Jesus was made manifest in this physical realm it was the middle place/inner court realm...this gives much understanding in way of the things He spoke at the time to those around Him......because the day of Pentecost was about to "fully come" He was preparing them for it....but it does not stop with His spoken "red" letter word in the Gospels....now He is leading us into The fullness of Tabernacles.....We need to follow on....and leave what we have become familiar with to see Greater things in Him and The Kingdom....and we will do so as He permits.....It is no coincident that He came on the 4th day....right in the middle of the Seven....

As Patrick pointed out the inner court is where we partake of both natures...it is a Jacob/Israel moment where we wrestle with God....it is no doubt a place where we ascend and descend/or in and out....Thank God for Gethsemane.....This is where we see that it is no longer "our will but His that is done"....

Also we see the pattern in The Cross, The Tomb, and The Resurrection.....that Pressure place here is the Tomb.....There we also have a death place or pressure place.....where the two Meet....it goes on and on.....
As is also shown in Peter, James/Jacob, and John....

But....Praise be to Him...eventually "We go out no more".... cheers cheers cheers

Just my thoughts...
We Love you Brother John and are not out to prove anyone wrong....we are just sharing with you what we have come to understand......I hope you receive it with that in mind... Smile


Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

8 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 7:23 pm

Guest


Guest
ARTIC and friends,

I absolutely appreciate the open, loving, sincere and unemotional dialogue we are having! I never once felt that anybody here wasn't being completely honest and open with me and I thank you all for that! I also agree that we are all in different places on our respective faith walks...and everybody here has a sincere love for the Lord...or else why be here in the first place. So much more can be accomplished in this way.

I have learned a great deal from the reading of others' experiences and journeys here and for that I am very grateful.

We obviously have legitimate differences of opinions on some important matters. For a fact, we cannot disagree and all be correct since some of the disagreements are fundamental/foundational in nature.

One thing I LOVE about God is He will let us know what He wants us to know, if we humble ourselves and ask Him to. He gives wisdom liberally to those that ask. He also has promises for those of us who hold the truth in unrighteousness...I welcome this as I type...and Pray that God would chasten those of us who are holding the truth in unrighteousness. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. This is part of the "dying we must endure" check out the number see if you can add up the "9"...(Heb 12:6) I fear God and know He answers every single one of my prayers. Better we cut off the things that cause us to sin and go to heaven maimed than not make it at all. Not my view but His.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Let's put it in the loving, angry, just, and righteous hands of God and ask for Him to intervene now with His power...for the sake of all of our very souls...so that we may all hear His voice clearly.

You all might think I am nuts by now....but I pray very frequently (most every day) that God will pour out His fierce wrath and fiery indignation upon my flesh. He always answers that prayer. My enemies are His enemies...so I pray against my flesh...and now yours as well. As a result, He has delivered me from this wretched body of death...and subdued my vile flesh. Make no provision for the flesh...and put on Christ.

John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

John 11:44 (Do I really need to do the math AGAIN?? Let's see... (Chapter 11 (WITNESS) (44=4x11) (11+44=55=5+5=10) So we have 4.10.11 (We go forth as apostles/witnesses to escape the flesh that still has a grip on us during 10) And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.


LET MY PEOPLE GO!!! We need to escape our dead state by coming OUT OF OUR GRAVE of captivity to the world/flesh/sin.


Remember it took "10" Plagues to convince Pharaoh to set the slaves free. Each time, God hardened His heart...because it is just the way God does it. I know because I preach to thousands and know with certainty how God handles those who hold the truth in unrighteousness. God means business and He could care less about our "6" FLESH. He will get us to "9" if we go Fourth and DO HIS WILL...kind of like the entire book of James.

If I am wrong, He will DEFINITELY let me know. We have an audience of ONE so it is all good. We know He is watching with love and concern. And everything works for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

Jesus came to take away our sin...and He will come like a thief if the goodman of the house isn't on the housetop watching...and break through our house...to bust it (sin/unrighteousness) out of us...and that, my beloved can hurt. Depending on how tightly you are holding on to the world/sin, you can gauge the pain level.

I see it EVERY SINGLE DAY in real human beings that are spiritual and love God...and hang on to sin.

I will let you know immediately if our Father chastens me for what I have witnessed to my brother and sisters here.

Imagine that it all ended tomorrow...You can make up a scenario in your minds. Before we leave the earth, the Supreme Court holds a special session to try us to see if we are in fact Christians (I know this is silly...but there is a point). They are all pagans (assume) and they have to take what God said a Christian should look like as stated in the Bible. The court judges hire an expert witness that states a Christian will follow the exact pattern, footsteps, shadow and suffering of Christ's life. How much evidence will there be to convict you?

Thank you again for you love, sincerity and humility.

Your brother and servant, John



9 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 10:42 pm

Rosered


John W wrote:Rose,

Ask yourself three questions when considering important spiritual topics/conflicts:

- How much fruit for the Kingdom (God)?

- How much fruit for Satan (anti-Christ)?

- Who was Jesus speaking to when He told the woman caught at adultery Go and sin no more? Was he talking to her spirit woman (which could never sin...and never did sin); or, Was He talking to her carnal woman that decided, with free-will, to have sex out of wedlock?

WE ARE THAT WOMAN! If we can't admit it, God will quickly teach us by dipping us in more and more evil until we figure it out.

Abraham's, Esau's, Sarah's, Mary's, the Nobleman's, the Centurion's, Elizabeth's...carnal men/women had to make the choice to believe and follow God's Word (Jesus) and then, and only then, would God/Jesus take away their sins.

If we haven't started walking, we are still prisoners and in slavery/bondage in Egypt to King Pharaoh.

If we have any conflict with these verses (God's Word/Jesus) it should tell you something about what He is asking you to do now.

The carnal man has to follow the carnal/natural word of God FIRST. No spiritual wisdom is required to understand what these verses mean. He said follow me 27 times in the new testament. Preach, deliver, heal, feed, clothe...this is not spiritual...this is straightforward. The spiritual/meat comes later. Strong meat when we follow Jesus/God's word.

2 Thes 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

WE ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF PERDITION....When we finally figure that out, we will fall on our face and repent zealously for our iniquities...and follow Him. Then he will part the Red Sea (US...carnal/spirit...carnal will bow down to spirit man)....and as we head REarWARD...back into the wilderness from whence we came, all of the demons from Hell will chase us (Pharaoh's Army)...and God will close the sea on our adversaries (our flesh/accuser)....BECAUSE we finally decided to MOVE our butts. Very Happy

With LOVE from Your brother,
John

I hope to answer these questions Brother John

I know that cain represents the carnal man , I have a man from the Lord when Eve bore both sons Cain &ABel
never says she concieved twice , just once, but bore twice
God spoke to Cain the carnal to also do well and His offering would be accepted , we know Cain nevr done well , but was of the wicked one
the woman caught in the act of adultry was letting lust rule her heart

Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
we are all dead to God till the Lord raises us up
we are dead in Christ and dead to sin or dead in sin as we live on earth

I know that the hidden man of the heart Spirit man is Born of God
my brother Thomas died at twenty the only comfort I had was Ecc , knowing all youth is vanity , God blesses us to know that Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what [is] the way of the spirit, [nor] how the bones [do grow] in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.


Ecc 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both [shall be] alike good.


Ecc 11:7 ¶ Truly the light [is] sweet, and a pleasant [thing it is] for the eyes to behold the sun:


Ecc 11:8 But if a man live many years, [and] rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many. All that cometh [is] vanity.


Ecc 11:9 ¶ Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these [things] God will bring thee into judgment.


Ecc 11:10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth [are] vanity.

I love the way you share whats in your heart
I am thankful for all thats been given this week

Love In Christ Rose

10 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed May 29, 2013 11:03 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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John W wrote:My bottom-line view: Salvation is hard to get and quite possible to lose; otherwise, God would not have said so. If we, as men, can decide the conditions of our salvation (and yet, more boldly, others’), why do we need Jesus at all? He is, and will be, the final judge for all of us and He is the Word. He says…judge nothing before it’s time!

My dearest Brother John, I will say this about this paragraph you wrote.

Salvation is not hard to get and that is because it was freely given to us by the death of Jesus (1st Adam nature) and the resurrection of Christ (Last Adam nature, which is the Divine Nature of the Father).

It is the understanding "OF" that salvation that is hard to get and it is the understanding "OF" that salvation that you can lose, if it (the understanding) is lost here ... in this physical realm ... it is waiting for you in the spiritual realm after you physically die.

What is the "purpose of belief" is it for "obtaining salvation" or "understanding salvation"?

These are the things we have come to understand here. We believe in order to obtain the "understanding" of what we have been freely given by the Father through Christ ... and that understanding comes through the work of His Holy Spirit in us, and that is because His Holy Spirit "IS" the Spirit of understanding that we have been given as a token (promise) of understanding what we have been given.

Purpose of faith ... coming from the root word meaning "to persuade" ... we are persuaded "BY" the Holy Spirit that we have been given the Divine Nature of the Father and that the Nature of sin has been put to death, put to death 2000 years ago upon the cross.

Understanding that your sin nature was in "Jesus" when His physical body was put to death, (that which was corruptible but He had the power to keep it from being corrupted which we do not) and when He rose from the dead in His incorruptible body we are also brought into Him in that state of being.

Having it revealed to the mind (the mind of Christ that is now in you) is to understand that if Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father .... "SO ARE WE".

it is the carnal minds of men that will try to persuade you that this is not true whereas the Spirit of Christ is trying to persuade you that it is true.

Step into the unknown (the Holy of Holies) and let Him reveal to you who you are in Christ, a son of the heavenly Father.

A fellow partaker of the understanding of salvation
JUGGHEAD

Justification Under God's Grace Having Every Answer Delivered

Wait for the answers to be shown to you by Him rather than being told answers by men.

This includes me, let HIM show you what is truth and what is a lie.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

11 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:32 pm

Rosered



I do not know why it took me so long , but this all had bothered me to much and went to prayer over it , the Lord showed me somthing today I never put it in the correct perspective , till the Lord simplified it for me
He always makes me understand in the simplicity of Christ

Paul learned to seperate himself from sin
just as we must learn to seperate ourself from sin ,our minds are being renewd daily , just as the inner man grows in truth and grace but that carnal nature in usuntil the Lord consumes it with His fire of purification processes [them trials ] I know what Paul began to do now , after killing all those christians in Gods name , it was hard for him to bear being a murderer and no murderer will enter the kingdom , he was forgiven done that in ignorance not knowing the Law of sin

and yet he confessed this , seperating himself from sin dwelling in his flesh where there is no good thing in it , his body was as good as dead/ oh wretched man that i am who will deliver me from this body of death , his body was dead to him no pleasure in it in faith Like Abrahams was ,in His mind of Christ that annointing by God giving him the Holy Spirit and by focusing and dwelling on the things above , not below , His main thing was to keep His eyes on Jesus and the fruits of the Spirit , not the fruits of death knowing the law of sin put it to death for him which is good and he waited for His Lord to come and save him from this death trap of a body

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.



22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

and Chapter 8 is just beautiful !! I know that what each of us must be dealing with right now in this present state

I too love God , if you do not love God first , you cannot love anyone nor yourself
that is Why the great comandment is to love God first when God whom is Love is in you and Christ and the Holy Spirit you can love others as yourself , because you can love yourself also , so many in the churches are taught that they must deliver themselves , where they deny the power of God , whom is Jesus Christ , having the form of godliness but denying the power will certanly set you up for failure , this is why so many walk out of the church houses in droves and the preachers say , its the great falling away !! come out of her my people lest you recieve her plagues !!! mixing the law of sin and the law of Grace does NOT save you but put you in the place of failure everytime ! Paul is explaining this very thing in Romans 7 if you can see it .

for me I dont judge no man , and judgement is the Lords , but we are to uphold the Truth and tell the truth , and some hate hearing the truth , because the truth can set you free or convict you ,
conviction is a work of the Holy Spirit not the devil , so many confuse this work , calling good evil and evil good
Jesus Christ is the truth and blessed is he whom is not offended in Him / the Truth
My hubs showd me a way that was not good and I never saw this in me , he spoke the TRUTH , not judging me but putting the standard up that ol'cross that I should bear and die to it , and it helped me to be consciencly aware of error
we are to do this for one another in LOVE , the Word says its true , I ahve seperated myself from sin and thats why I can still have the peace of the Lord Jesus in my heart , the Holy Spirit works in us , that seal is Gods way of keeping his children in line and in good 'heal'thy spiritual growth in truth and grace

just had to get this off my chest , I was a bit troubled but now Im free ! Praising God for yet another deliverance till is done in Gods perfect work

12 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:27 am

A.R.T.I.C

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At first, I hate to say it, but I didn't quite understand what you were saying Rose....I apologize....but now I do..

And I think Heb. ch. 10 is a perfect ch.that goes along with what you have come to know..

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

GNB

Heb 10:1 The Jewish Law is not a full and faithful model of the real things; it is only a faint outline of the good things to come. The same sacrifices are offered forever, year after year. How can the Law, then, by means of these sacrifices make perfect the people who come to God?

Heb 10:2 If the people worshiping God had really been purified from their sins, they would not feel guilty of sin any more, and all sacrifices would stop.

This is what Christ has done for us.....He has purged our conscience from the sin nature (dead works) to be able to bring forth fruit unto God now...

If we still have a conscience or feel guilty of sin....then how can we be fruitful? Conscience of sin can not bear fruit...Not to mention the fact of what does it say about what Christ has done for us? If we still have a conscience of sin and guilt before God....then we don't fully comprehend what Christ has done....

I've had a problem with the word "Convict" when it comes to The Holy Spirit for a long time.....My question was...How can He "Convict" (hold accountable) for sin.... when He is the One who took it away nailing to His Cross....? Not only that but He knows there is not one thing we can do about it....That would be like accusing a blind man (literally) for being blind....

But to understand that it is The Old Man that feels ashamed...TOM....who mourns....TOM who is guilty....TOM.....who is accused and Judged....TOM who is our way of thinking and being, that must die....it is this man...the man of sin that has separated us from our God.... it is this man that will "NOT" rise again....he will not be corrected.....he will not be made righteous....
"He must die"


Then,.... we KNOW...That this is "NOT" who we are in Christ...and only then can we come before Him....having NO Conscience of Sin any longer....not because of what we have done....but because of What He has convinced us, that HE has done.....

Heb 10:10 Because Jesus Christ did what God wanted him to do, we are all purified from sin by the offering that he made of his own body once and for all.

A Reckoning of this "IS EVERYTHING" to us....if we are to ever lay hold of The Joy and Freedom of REAL LIFE in Christ....

This is where Religion misses The mark.....because they are still sin conscious....and therefore deny the ONLY Lord who bought them....

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Blessings Rose in your new found Freedom in Christ cheers cheers













The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

13 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:28 pm

Rosered




Sis you said this beautifully , and clear as crystal !


I dont think God judges our flesh , knowing full well it is corrupt on purpose so no one can bragg in their flesh what they do for God , knowing with clarity now that all sin and its found in their flesh , except for those whom are having the wrong spirit in them , to me that is what GOD is judging now

and bringing judgment on themselves , judge not lest you be judged
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son Jhn 8:15 You judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the dead and the living

making Him supreme judge over all powers and principalities
making the dead ALIVE in Him , to give back to the Father
because He is not the God of the dead but the Living and all Live to Him

this is why we need Jesus Christ our High priest as the mediator

because he walked as a man in the days of his flesh

But He was Spirit and truth is his hidden identity
I am so sorry I was not clear , it may have been just for me , but I get so excited with the revelation of Jesus , so many things that were hidden are now open and in plain sight now , its like how did I miss this !!
or whay could I not understand this before now ..lol

Thanks sis for sharing this , helps alot

rejoicing in the true freedom that Christ is a loving Lord and Savior
not dwelling on the death , our flesh is dead to sin as it is over ''in Christ'' , but the Life in Christ !!
God bless

14 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:23 am

todosan


This is a great topic.

Perfect love casts out fear. Does the message that you have received remove fear from your life or add to it? Most of my life I have heard messages that caused me to fear. Fear hell, fear death.

Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

I won’t settle anything for anyone, but I can tell you that I had such a powerful gospel experience in like 1999, that I was almost convinced I was not saved before that. The preacher was preaching good news, and for me it was possibly the first time I ever heard it. Did it remove all sin from my life? Far from it.
Again, the pattern of the feasts is essential to understanding the progression from death to life. Particularly the bread. At Passover, the bread is not leavened. Interpreted, In Him there is no darkness. The Passover feast speaks of the perfect sacrifice. Positionally, the righteous place He held was imputed to us because under the law, sin was imputed to us.

Then enter the Pentecostals. Frankly, the most sinful group of people that ever walked the face of the planet. It was designed that way actually. The man of lawlessness must be revealed before the brightness of His coming can overthrow him. Therefore, the Feast of Pentecost (Weeks) was a leavened feast. What Christians do not realize is that the leaven leavens the whole lump. On a personal level, the leaven is revealed in every aspect of our lives. Whether we act on it or not is a minor detail. It is there and it is a propensity within that betrays us and leads us to death. Most Pentecostal preachers are known for their fiery sermons. They preach about the things they themselves struggle against to alleviate their own aching consciences. Behind the scenes, God is working His own brand of fire. The fire comes for the sake of the word to purge the leaven from the bread. This is why we are baptized with the Holy Spirit AND with fire. This is the desert wilderness.

The good news is that Tabernacles is an unleavened feast. This speaks not only of His righteousness, but His righteousness in you. Christ in you is the HOPE of glory. The leaven is purged at that time. If we had understood this simple pattern, we would never have condemned those in religion according to their actions.

15 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:26 pm

Patrick1


Todd has said:
The good news is that Tabernacles is an unleavened feast. This speaks not only of His righteousness, but His righteousness in you. Christ in you is the HOPE of glory. The leaven is purged at that time. If we had understood this simple pattern, we would never have condemned those in religion according to their actions.

You have said a mouthful there dear brother in the Lord. If they wouldonly teach it more in the churches there would be no telling how far the body of Christ would be. But I recognize that many at this time cannot see this marvelous truth contained and hidden in plain sight for all to read.

Grace and Peace Patrick

16 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:21 pm

todosan


True. But consider this.

The church is also found in the second room (Pentecost) according to Revelation. The church never made room for its own process to complete. It raised the bar of expectation and placed heavy burdens on people that could never be achieved.

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. …13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

This was certainly true of the leaders at the end of the Age of the Law, but I think it is also true today in many ways. One of the facets of immaturity is that men behave like men, rather than Christ. The self-deception is that we pass through the first feast and believe that we are matured well enough not to make the mistake of being all religious towards others. One only has to spend about 3 years in church to find out that most of the people and almost all of the leaders refuse to grow up, and few graduate the feast of Passover. You can speak in tongues and never understand righteousness, and so everyone believes they are ready for ministry not long after reciting the sinner’s prayer. Time to put them on stage and give them a microphone.

If I were a devil, I would plant the tares of destruction as early as possible in the lives of the target person. This would look like distortions of the most critical truths. The gospel would be about avoiding hell, the purpose would be about getting people saved, and the reward would be off in some day bye and bye where no eye has seen and no ear has heard. If they were living a righteous enough life, they could be counted worthy to take the first train out on the day of rapture.

The church understands what we are supposed to look like. Its Jesus of course. We are supposed to shun sin at all costs or your devotion toward God is seriously in question. The problem was that they tolerated ever damnable heresy that came along that would disguise the process, to the point that the process was lost. When this happened, anything that attempted to resurrect the process was treated as an all out assault on Christianity, and should be burned at the stake. (As if Jesus needs anyone to defend him.) If they had let things proceed, there is a chance that they would be discovered as imperfect. Ironically, the whole point of the leaven leavening the whole lump was to discover that we are largely imperfect and in need of a Savior to be our guarantee of the good things to come. Ever seeing, never perceiving, because there was a willful intent to choose a brand of faith that was made up in the mind of men. Of course, man’s doctrines sound wonderful to a carnal mind and that is all you have until the fires of Pentecost transform you by a renewing of that mind.

Let’s go one more step. This is the reason why God brought forth the remnant. The church was hopelessly stuck in Pentecost and destined to be spewed out. Like when the Lord used the gentile to make the Jew jealous, the Lord will also bring to jealousy the church with the emergence of the remnant. The Jew is to the law, what the church is to grace, what the remnant is to the reign of Christ. How’s that for daily manna?

When we see this pattern, we have to ask, “Was it all planned this way?” Well, that is the questions isn’t it? If the answer is “no”, then we keep on believing that God is trying His best (and losing the battle apparently) to get a people who will actually believe Him and obey Him. If the answer is “yes”, then it is TIME that brings the fullness and not the behavior of men. That my friends, is a stake in the heart of performance based religion.

17 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:55 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Wasn't sure where to post this and I was not led to start a new thread, but I was shown something this morning that makes sense to me in what is going on with what we see in the world.

It is called "Premature Birth" a birth that takes place before maturity and we know that this maturity is "A maturity in Christ (TRUTH)".

Our own impatience with seeing things around us causes us to want things to happen at a faster pace than the design of the Father.

If there is something wrong with our body (the bride of Christ) it causes the premature birth of a son, and a premature birth is "ALWAYS" a son of the world, in other words, he is always a son of his own way of thinking.

Also, if we think there is an emergency, then an emergency C-section is performed and again it is a premature birth, birth into love has to happen naturally, but what I mean by naturally is that it has to happen through HIS PROCESS.

We cannot rush the birth of the SON "in" us, it has to be in His timeline, not when we think it should happen.

Understanding all the details of His written word, is becoming mature in Him, mature in understanding and understanding cannot be rushed.

As for what Nathan said in another thread, I believe "WE" are the mansions that have many rooms and those rooms are "understandings" more so, that these rooms are examples, physical examples of what is taking place inside of us.

Our journey into all these rooms (understandings/examples) are what causes us to not be born prematurely.

Just thought it was necessary to share this.
Jugghead

P.S. It is religion that aborts a son of the world before he has a chance to be born again ...... AND causes premature birth.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

18 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:50 am

Holly1

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Thanks again Jugghead. I was one of the people that post was meant for.

19 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:11 pm

cross-eyed

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wisdom is measured by understanding.... hmmmm.... how?    how does understanding measure wisdom?    What would be the evidence or manifestation of that?

20 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:18 pm

Rosered


wow You have some  good  insight there Bro JUGG ! 
 instantly thought of Paul when you  brought this out to discuss  God Word Translation   makes  verse 8 more clear
LIKE  an aborted fetus given life !!  Paul come by revelation  and an encounter with Christ  directly
 
 makes me wonder if the  process you are talking about differs for  everyone ?  
 
  One of the reasons why I was thinking this , is because we know Judas  was taken away from  apostleship , that scriptures be fulfilled
  but the other 11   chose  Matthias  , when  they  cast lots  , But it was Jesus Christ whom decided to call Saul   and rename him Paul meaning little or least , I know that must have a deeper signifigance than just   the name change   ,such as  from Jacob/supplanter  to Israel/God prevails
 
  Saul means asked and Paul means small or little  least to greatest   in apostlship he did  write alot of the new testament   by revelation   ,  maybe as a liitle child  shall lead them , because we know Christ who is in God was in Paul  when  given the Light or Knowledge of God / Christ  by the Holy Spirit  to the gentiles   /other nations outside  the camp/ Israel

  you have given me much to consider , I am always thankful for those willing to share   with one another   what the Lord is showing them   its all revelation by His Holy Spirit  [Love &Life to all ] 


15 Brothers and sisters, I’m making known to you the Good News which I already told you, which you received, and on which your faith is based. In addition, you are saved by this Good News if you hold on to the doctrine I taught you, unless you believed it without thinking it over. I passed on to you the most important points of doctrine that I had received:
Christ died to take away our sins as the Scriptures predicted.
He was placed in a tomb.
He was brought back to life on the third day as the Scriptures predicted.
He appeared to Cephas.[[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians 15&version=GW#fen-GW-28705a]a[/url]] Next he appeared to the twelve apostles.

 Then he appeared to more than 500 believers at one time. (Most of these people are still living, but some have died.)
 
 Next he appeared to James. Then he appeared to all the apostles. Last of all, he also appeared to me.
I’m like an aborted fetus who was given life.
 I’m the least of the apostles. I’m not even fit to be called an apostle because I persecuted God’s church.
 
 10 But God’s kindness[[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians 15&version=GW#fen-GW-28710b]b[/url]] made me what I am, and that kindness was not wasted on me. Instead, I worked harder than all the others. It was not I who did it, but God’s kindness was with me.
 
 
 I love the word grace better , but its in Kindness that we know Gods  love
11 So, whether it was I or someone else, this is the message we brought you, and this is what you believed.

21 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:21 pm

Rosered


cross-eyed wrote:wisdom is measured by understanding.... hmmmm.... how?    how does understanding measure wisdom?    What would be the evidence or manifestation of that?





   Great Bro Nate !!till we come to the full measure of Christ
 
  cubits to stature ?
Eph 4:13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the
 
 measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

22 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:27 pm

todosan


Wisdom without understanding is devilish. That was the word I received yesterday. I wrote it down becasue I was impressed to. If you had understanding, Nathan, you wouldn't have to ask that question!!!!! HA.. Just kidding..

For the purpose of this context, I think the two are different things.

I am have been in this constant battle with my pastor friend. The other day he said to me that understanding wasn't necessary to grow up in the church. I felt it a veiled dig at me, because I major on understanding. He is a wise minister and makes good choices for those who come to him, but he has no understanding whatsoever of the manner in which spiritual things are structured.

Often we see the departure in things like spiritual warfare. The Lord told us years ago that warfare is fought from a place of rest. I told everyone this and no one listened. It was a wise statement, however, I was only repeating what the Lord said. Now, I realize why it was a wise statement. The place of rest is where you receive the authority to carry out the mandate given to you. When you go in this authority, you will not fail because you take with you the hosts of heaven. You have God's  support to accomplish that deed accordingly.

In church, spiritual warfare is binding and losing and pulling things down and blah blah. Then comes all the needless casualties of war after you pick a fight you can't win. In those days I had no understanding of the order of God. Now, God is bringing understanding of those things and I can tell you there is only one way such things should be approached.. His way!

Your wisdom without understanding has never really been assimilated into your internal knower. It remains doctrinal or conceptual. Once understanding comes, your behavior will be ever changed according to the degree of that understanding. That understanding pushes out the boundaries of the kingdom of heaven in you. Perhaps the measure should be the extent of your rule?

23 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:43 pm

todosan


Jugg wrote:

We cannot rush the birth of the SON "in" us, it has to be in His timeline, not when we think it should happen.

Understanding all the details of His written word, is becoming mature in Him, mature in understanding and understanding cannot be rushed.

Our journey into all these rooms (understandings/examples) are what causes us to not be born prematurely.

______________

Wow, there it is again. These few words are such strong testimony against the critial failing of the church across the whole earth. The abortion of children is nothing more than the literal manifestation of what happens also in the spirit. The church aborts its children continuously because of jealousy and the lack of understanding that our calling is to raise up those behind us into full maturity. Yes, anyone born "prematurely" in born into their own way of thinking... enter religion and every fowl doctrine that could possibly be sown into the hearts of men.

The patterns in the bible are clear. It takes time to birth a son. Years! and look at Joash and Athalia.

2 Kings 11 When Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the royal heirs. But Jehosheba, the daughter of King Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him away from among the king’s sons who were being murdered; and they hid him and his nurse in the bedroom, from Athaliah, so that he was not killed. So he was hidden with her in the house of the Lord for six years, while Athaliah reigned over the land.

This is a clear look at the pattern the Lord wants us to understanding about growing up. It took Joash six years (man) hidden away in the bed chamber to become king. In our walk, we too need to be hidden away in the place of intamacy to fullfill the calling, and to avoid being killed. I have seen a hundred premature children killed by Athaliah. She is a killing spirit and she wants to abort the sons.

24 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:47 pm

cross-eyed

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Now you've done did it . . .ya went and opened a whole other can of worms here.  one of my biggest platforms as I was growing in the dimensions of the Father was dealing with the power of the mind and how much of an obstacle it was and how the mind represents the woman and the spirit represents the man and when the two become one . . .like a man and woman being intimate with each other, the seed of life comes only from the man and enters into the woman . . .but before that can happen, she must be in "submission" to "receive" the seed.  If she's resistant and the man continues to advance upon her, it's considered rape.

People tended to shy away from that message because it meant that we're to disengage our minds.  But the message is, there's a place and a time for when we engage and disengage our logic and reason.  Understanding of natural things in this realm requires logic, reasoning, deductions and conclusions; gathering as much "information" and making an assessment.  

But when it comes to the realm of the spirit, our minds are not to be in control . . .it's the core of the power of faith  . . . believing in what can't be seen, accepting what can't be understood . . . through natural means.  

Then . . .the graduation comes . . .when the seed is released in us, like a life in the womb, it takes on a whole other life of it's own and a woman's body becomes the carrier of a separate being within her.  Things start to get pushed around inside her, certain habits make her sick, other things she now craves that make no sense. . . .to our logic and reason . . .and then the day comes when the birthing takes place . . and that . . .for me . . .is where understanding comes into play . . .it's birthed within us through the spirit rather than through our logic and reason.  

So yeah, understanding within us does have a major role to play, but there's an order to it.  If the alignment is out of order, the key elements required to walk in spiritual plains will be thwarted.  I wrote the rest of this before Todd responded . . .

-------------------------------

This may be a bit of a stretch and appear to be totally disconnected from this topic, but for me, wisdom is the evidence of maturity and knowledge is merely an awareness of where we are in our relationship with Christ.  The more I know, the more I grow.  The more I grow the more accessible wisdom becomes.  As long as there's room to grow, wisdom continues to expand in me, but wisdom in and of itself is infinite, that's why I asked how it could be measured.  There's only one way to measure infinity . . .and that's by using infinity . . .one with no beginning and no ending.  And that's what leads me to the stretch . . . the thousand year reign . . . It's Christ.  The holy of holies measurement, 10x10x10 . . . using Christ as the measurement, wisdom can then be comprehended because wisdom comes from Christ.  Christ in us enables us to become him.  When we enter into Christ, we become aware that we're becoming him.  The yin and the yang, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega . . . my head is spinning . . .I gotta take a breath.

25 Re: Salvation and Sinning on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:53 pm

cross-eyed

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No fair doubling up your responses!!!

But your latter one, Todd has much the same sound as what I had posted as well.  And I agree there have been many still births, abortions . . .not to mention spiritual rapes that happen on a regular basis, all in the name of God while the congregation continues to sing all the worship songs with wonderful words of praise and adoration, all the while they continue to miscarry the spiritual birthings that the Father releases in them.  Religion is the biggest "morning after" pill that ever existed.

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