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Death and 9

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1 Death and 9 on Mon May 27, 2013 8:17 pm

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Thanks Patrick, A and J...AJ, Rose, and the REST for the great discussions on death/numbers on various other threads. I am starting a new thread so we can explore death (for the sake of life) further...and share viewpoints...and sharpen iron in the Fire of Jesus Christ, God's Living Word...

I hope this is provocative and edifying.

It is definitely about death...and it is a "good" death that we are talking about...no fear in the Kingdom. Death must happen and the seed must fall away/die before it can be quickened...

How could we ever overcome the second death if we do not go through the first death?

1 Corinthians 15:35-37 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 (3+6=9) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

The number 9 represents the “death” we must experience to live the “resurrection-life” …on earth…to overcome the sting of the “second death.”

Here are the obvious “9/Death” references in a single chapter (John 12). You might also want to compare other translations against the KJV to see which translation makes it easier to recognize the “spiritual” meaning of these verses. You can see how the Lord has taught me to do the math. 19, 29, 39, 49, 59, etc., are "9 verses" (they could have other numbers associated with them, but they are clear "9 verses".

Listen to the Spirit as you read them...

John 12:7 (numbers: 12+7=19)
Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.

John 12:9 (numbers: v.9)
Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.

John 12:17 (numbers: 12+17=29)
The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

John 12:24 (numbers: 1+2+2+4=9)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

John 12:27 (numbers: 12+27=39)
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

John 12:33 (numbers: 1+2+3+3=9; [12+33=45…and 4+5=9]; and 3x3=9)
This he said, signifying what death he should die.

John 12:36 (numbers: 3+6=9)
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.


Again, I am showing you the "undeniable" carnal/natural proof of the numbers. In a way that I hope excites much interest and to-die-for curiosity....on "cloud 9"... As I said, numbers (SIMPLY) unlock every verse in the Bible...but it can only be completely unlocked by Jesus Christ. You have to live and die and live through it for it to be given/opened.

Matthew 2:11 (11=Apostle=two witnesses)... And when they (wise men/two witnesses) were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

I have opened His treasures and am presenting these gifts back to Him right now...because I am standing before His throne in judgement each and every time I share the Words and Wisdom He has given me with a brother or sister. This is exactly what we all WILL do as long as we are His prisoners...and happy slaves of righteousness. Smile

OK...now for the grand finale...check out these "death" jewels:

Matthew 27:45 (2=7=9 and 4+5=9 and 45/5=9 and 27+45=72=7+2=9)!!! Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Matthew 27:46 (2+7+4+6=19) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:33 (33=3x3=9=33=age at Jesus' death) And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Mark 15:34 (15+34=49) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


There is "sow" much more in each of these verses. Different numbers, meanings and messages to each of us depending on where we are on our respective faith walks. One thing I would remind all of us...if we think we made it, we are right back in the traditional church. Remember, they all made it too...and that is what turned us off in the first place. I, personally, am deaf, dumb, lame, blind, and a leprous man...until Jesus Christ let's me know more about how my judgement went. Judge nothing before (be-FOUR) it is time...

1 Corinthians 4:5 (4+5=9) Therefore(four) judge nothing before(four) the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

THANKS FOR THE GREAT THREAD!!!

Your brother and fellow servant,
John

2 Re: Death and 9 on Mon May 27, 2013 8:51 pm

Patrick1


Bill Britton wrote a book years ago called "Light out of Darkness" and I felt I needed to share a chapter out of that book. It has some very interesting things to say, that you may find truly unique.

Chapter 6 - THE GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE

In this message I will make a statement so startling, and present a truth so controversial and so different from traditional theology that I will have to use nine different translations to back it up. This message contains strong meat, and is not for "babes" who are limited to the milk of the Word.

The end-time Sons of God are coming into such a strange and glorious realm of worship and praise that we must go to the Word of God to find confirmation. As some are coming through the Spirit-filled or "pentecostal" experience into a further work of God that we have never known before, we find others who have been in pentecost, going back to the outer court religion of works, formality, and ritualism. The realm of the supernatural as we have known it in the past, with its healing, gifts, and miracles, will soon cease to exist. It will pass away. Those in this realm will either go on to the fullness of God, to a place of dominion and a performance of His "greater works", or they will find themselves without their supernatural "gifts" and forced to worship in the realm of the fundamentalist in the outer court. Let us look into the Word…

Wood and Gold

We find the description of the Golden Altar in chapter 30 of Exodus. If you have a Bible with you, please stop here and read the first 10 verses of that chapter. Notice in verse one that the altar is made of wood, overlaid with pure gold. In the Bible, wood is symbolic of the human nature, while gold is a type of the purity of God. So here in the Golden Altar we find a meeting of God and man, with God so overshadowing man, that the nature of man is nowhere to be seen. The purpose of this altar is to burn incense upon. The burning of incense is a type of worship and prayer. We find this confirmed in Psalms 141:2 "Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice." We find in Luke chapter one that Zacharias, father of John the Baptist, was a priest whose lot was to burn incense in the temple. Luke 1:10 says "And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense."

And then in Revelation 8:3-4 we read: "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand."

Worship, Praise, and Intercession

We find in Acts 2:15 that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples at the "third hour of the day". or nine o'clock in the morning. They worshipped and praised God and spoke "the wonderful works of God." We see in Acts 3:1 that Peter and John went up to the temple at the hour of prayer, being "the ninth hour" or three o'clock in the afternoon. At this time they interceded for the lame man, and spoke the word of faith that met his need.

Twice in the day the incense was burned on the Golden Altar. "Sweet incense every morning” and "perpetual incense" every evening (Exodus 30:7-Cool. The morning incense was a picture of the true worship and praise of the saints to their wonderful God, while the evening incense is typical of the prayer and intercession for those in need. This is God's holy priesthood… a ministry unto the Lord, and a meeting of the needs of the people.

We see in Revelation 8:3 that the Golden Altar was before the throne. In Hebrews 4:14-16 we find that Jesus is our High Priest, passed into the heavens, yet ready to meet our needs. So we are told "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." We see in Philippians 4:6 that we are to bring our requests to the Lord "by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving". In Hebrews 13:15 we read: "Let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."

In Spirit and in Truth

We find in John 4:23-24 where Jesus says that the Father seeks worshippers who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. In MOFFATT'S translation we read: "The real worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in reality; for these are the worshippers that the Father desires. God is Spirit, and his worshippers must worship Him in Spirit and in reality." It is put this way in PHILLIP'S translation: "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in reality. Indeed, the Father looks for men who will worship him like that. God is Spirit, and those who worship him can only worship in spirit and in reality." Permit me to use just one more translation to bring out more of the beauty of this marvelous passage. In WUEST'S New Testament we read: "The genuine worshippers shall worship the Father in a spiritual sphere, and in the sphere of truth. For indeed, the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. God as to His nature is spirit, as for those who are worshipping, it is necessary in the nature of the case to be worshipping in a spiritual sphere, and in the sphere of truth."

God hates fleshly worship. He hates the works of the carnal mind being brought to the Golden Altar of worship. In Leviticus 10:1-2 we find two of the sons of Aaron coming before the Lord with "strange fire" in his censer, and incense therein, which the Lord had not commanded. A fire went out from the Lord and killed them. These men were fully qualified to burn incense, but they did not worship "in the Spirit". They did what their natural mind though was alright. Dear ones, it is a glorious privilege to come before the Living God, in worship and praise and adoration. But it is a dreadful, and dangerous thing to create a system of religion out of the carnal mind. God will not accept anything but that which is brought forth by the life of the Spirit. Exodus 30:9 says: "Ye shall offer no strange incense thereon".

Trees of the Lord

Let me point out to you that the wood in this altar was "shittim" wood, from the old desert Acacia tree. This was not made of the imported cedars of Lebanon, or the great fir trees. Just the plain, solid, available desert Acacia tree. You don't have to be a PhD, or a seminary graduate, or even have two suits of clothes to worship God in Spirit and in truth. He is searching for those who are available, whatever their state in life may be. God is not interested in making all the poor people rich. He is interested in taking people in all walks of life, poor and rich, and bringing them up into a Royal Priesthood—Kings and Priests. When you catch a glimpse of this realm of the Spirit, you will not care about the riches of this world. You will not even care if you are getting equal rights with people of this world, for you are not of this world.

The Acacia tree was a tree with heavy bark and sharp thorns for protection against it's natural enemies. It had roots that sunk deep beneath the desert sands, searching for water, for underground rivers. But in order to be used in this Golden Altar, it had to be cut loose from it's roots, it's natural source of strength. It was cut loose from all things earthy, and separated alone unto God and His plan.

So many feel that they must have some protection against those who would misuse them. So their thorns and bark consist of a bad temper, or a sharp tongue, a keen wit or a vindictive spirit, or even maybe a spirit of self-pity and a hysterical weeping against any offense to their person. Or it may be sulking, a drawing inside your own personal shell, or even a physical ailment that commands the pity and concern of others. But whatever your natural protection happens to be, it must go. It must be stripped off, leaving you defenseless against a cruel world, before you can be used as a vessel of honor in the true worship of the Lord. But fret not, He will cover your wood or human nature with pure gold. His divine nature will be your protection. You will need never fear any enemies, for nothing can touch you. His nature in you and covering you will bring forth nothing but love from you for your enemies and those that attack you. All things that come your way will work for your good, and make you more like Him.

There have been so many attacks made against my life and teachings that I no longer bother to answer them, although proof of their falseness was easy to produce. But I had to learn by hard experience that the natural protection does not fit in this new realm of the Spirit. It was especially hard to bear when attacks were made by those who were close to us, and when their lies were so easy to disprove. But I gradually came to the knowledge that my best protection was to be covered by the divine nature of God, and let His compassion and love and wisdom rule over my spirit. Just learn to be what you are, in Him, and quit trying to prove to people that you are not what they heard you are. When someone tells you that I preach such and such a false doctrine, don't expect me to take valuable space in this paper, or time out of my busy schedule to fight back at them or disprove their lies. Just read my messages and see for yourself what I believe and preach. Come and visit us and see what our lives are like; see if we live and walk in our daily lives in the Spirit or in the flesh realm. Strip me, oh God…of the bark so that I cannot protect myself. Cut off the thorns, oh Lord, that I will not strike back to hurt any of my enemies. Let only the gold of your divine nature be seen in all of my life and my worship of you!

Go On or Get Out!

Now let me get down to the meat of this message. We have seen that the Incense represents worship, praise, and intercession. And the Golden Altar is symbolic of that vessel that offers up the spiritual incense. God could certainly meet the needs of the people without your help or mine. But by His marvelous grace He has allowed us to be vessels by which intercession can go forth for a needy world. He got along fine for a long time without the praise and worship of humanity, but thank God He has revealed His glory to us that we might be able to express our love and adoration to the Almighty God.

Throughout the year, until the time for the Feast of Tabernacles, the Golden Altar resided in the sanctuary with the candlestick (lampstand) and table of shewbread. This was a place that was 20 cubits long, 10 cubits wide, and 10 cubits high. Now 20 times 10 times 10 equals 2,000. And for a period of 2,000 years the Church has been in this supernatural realm which we call the "Pentecostal" realm. They have worshipped God by supernatural means, and walked in the operation of the supernatural "gifts" of the Spirit, in contrast to the natural worship and human works in the outer court religion.

But something is about to happen in our day to this "pentecostal realm". The supernatural as we have known it, or "that which is in part" is passing away. God is moving, and no longer will men be able to operate in this realm as they have in the past. The time has come. Thus saith the Lord! They will either go on to the fullness of God, to do the works of Jesus, and "greater works", or they will drop back to the outer court religion. There will be those who, without going through the veil, will try to continue to imitate the works of the Spirit, the miracles, the gifts. They will, like Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10:1, put fire in their own censer and try to burn incense. But it will be "strange fire", and the fire of God will consume them. I recently, for the first time, attended services of one of America's "biggest" and best known evangelists. I went sincerely, with an open heart. Since his radio broadcasts indicated a great deal of liberty in the services, I was expecting a service led by the Holy Ghost, with freedom in the Spirit. But there was no true liberty. There was lots of noise, and plenty of "jazzy" music. But there was no freedom for operation of Gifts of the Spirit, no ministry or liberty for anyone except the six very talented performers on the stage or platform. It was a "religious vaudeville", a "pentecostal circus", a two hour entertainment carried on for one purpose… to get the money from the people. It was "strange fire". One of the young men from our church was an usher, and he was backstage where he saw them take a man who was not cripple at all, in fact he was walking around and dancing during the music, but they put him into a wheelchair, rolled him on to the stage where they commanded him to rise from the wheelchair (which he did on cue) thus performing a "great miracle".

Someone says, "but don't you believe in miracles, Brother Britton?" Of course I do! But those who go beyond the veil into the Holiest of all will operate as Jesus did. The miracles will be genuine, and not for the purpose of raising an offering. But from here on, you will see more and more frauds and fakers rising up in the healing and "gift" realm. For those who do not go on into the fullness of God will find themselves without genuine miracles in the "part" realm, and will be forced to produce their own signs or prophecies by fakery, or get out of the business. I could shock you by naming names of many well known evangelists and radio preachers who are already offering "strange fire", but it is not my ministry or my purpose to blast or fight or expose individuals, but to show you the principles of truth by which God is working in these last days. Dear God, how blind God's people are, sending millions of dollars each year to religious racketeers who mail them "personal prophecies" that have been run off a printing press and mailed out by the thousands, and who send them "personal" letters that have been run through automatic typewriters by office girls while the big evangelist has never even seen their letter. What a shock when they finally awake to the reality of what has been going on. Look what happened to Korah, Dathan and Abiram in Numbers chapter 16. They put fire in their censers, and gathered "all the congregation" against Moses and Aaron. What a shock to the congregation when the "earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up". To see their heroes thus dealt with by God, after they had supported them, must have caused them much grief. Wake up, child of God! Ask God to help you see the difference between the true fire of God, and the "strange fire" of the frauds.

The Work of the Censers

There were censers of brass (Numbers 16:39), and censers of pure gold (1 Kings 7:50). The brass was to be used in the outer court, and the gold in the sanctuary. The true fire of God that was to be put into the censer and carried to the Golden Altar of Incense, was to come from the fire put under the burnt offering on the Brazen Altar. This shows us that no worship or intercession is acceptable unto God unless it comes as a result of a work of Calvary in the life of the Believer. "Strange fire" comes from the works of the flesh and the operation of the carnal mind. The true fire of God results from a crucified life, through a true knowledge of the work of Calvary.

The censer was a small vessel used to carry fire from the Brazen Altar to the Golden Altar of incense. There were times when incense was put right into the censer while the priest carried it, as in Numbers 16:46, where Aaron took fire from the altar, put it in the censer, put in incense and ran among the people to stay the plague. A marvelous picture of intercession for a people under judgment.

Since there was no place provided on the Golden Altar for fire to be placed or ashes to be carried out, no fire pans, shovels, etc, it is obvious that the priest took the censer of live coals and sat it on top of the Golden Altar. He then dropped the incense into the censer sitting on the altar, and a cloud of incense would rise up out of the fire. This is the picture we see in Revelation 8:3-4, where the angel has a censer and incense to offer upon the Golden Altar, where the smoke of the incense ascended up "out of the angel's hand", or from the censer. This was what the Golden Altar was for, a place to set the censer in the Tabernacle, for it was not to be set upon the floor. There was a crown around the edge of the Golden Altar, to keep the censer from sliding off. This is why they took the Golden Altar behind the veil into the Holiest of Holies on the Day of Atonement.

Where was the Golden Altar?

Perhaps that last statement surprised you. Just where did they put the altar? And was it ever moved? Why? What is this symbolic of? Let us look into the scriptures. Turn to Exodus chapter 30, verses 1 through 10. "And thou shalt make an altar to burn incense upon: of shittim wood shalt thou make it." (verse 1). Where to put this altar is given in verse 6: "And thou shalt put it before the veil that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with thee. And Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every morning". Let us read that same scripture in the Amplified translation: "You shall put the altar of incense in front and outside of the veil that screens the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony (the law, the tables of stone), where I will meet with you. And Aaron shall burn on it incense of sweet spices; every morning when he trims and fills the lamps he shall burn it." We find King Uzziah (2 Chronicles 26:19) standing beside the incense altar with a censer in his hand, ready to burn incense. Azariah the chief priest, and 80 other priests were there with him, so we know that this was not in the Holiest place. It was in the sanctuary. So these scriptures make it plain that the regular resting place of the Golden Altar was in the holy place with the lampstand and table of shewbread where the priests ministered daily.

But now we see what seems to be a conflicting scripture in Hebrews chapter 9. For in verses 1 thru 4 we read: "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly (earthly) sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; which had the golden censer, and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant." Now notice, please, that the Golden Altar of incense is not mentioned as being in either place. And what is this "golden censer" which is said to be in the Holy of Holies? The word translated "censer" here is not the same Greek word used for censer in Revelation 8:3-5. The word censer is only found three times in the New Testament. Two times in Revelation 8 it is the Greek word "Libanotos", which means a small vessel for burning incense. But in Hebrews 9:4 it is the Greek word "Thumiasterion" which is a place of fumigation, ie.: altar of incense in the temple.

So we see that Hebrews chapter nine tells us that the Golden Altar of incense was actually located behind the veil, in the Holy of Holies. Now to confirm this, let me read from other translations, Hebrews 9:3-4:

PHILLIPS: "Inside, beyond the curtain, was the inner tent called the Holy of Holies, in which were the GOLDEN INCENSE ALTAR and the gold covered ark of the agreement."

REVISED STANDARD VERSION: "Behind the second curtain stood a tent called the Holy of Holies, having the GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE, and the Ark of the Covenant."

NEW ENGLISH BIBLE: "Beyond the second curtain was the tent called the Most Holy Place. Here was a GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE, and the ark of the covenant."

BECK: AN AMERICAN TRANSLATION: "Behind the second curtain was the part of the tabernacle called the most holy place with the GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE and the ark of the covenant."

MOFFATT: "But behind the second veil was the tent called the Holy of Holies, containing the GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE, and also the Ark of the Covenant."

WILLIAMS: "But behind the second curtain is the tent that is called the Holy of Holies, with its GOLDEN INCENSE ALTAR and the chest for the covenant."

WEYMOUTH: "And behind the second veil was a sacred tent called the Holy of Holies. This had a GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE, and the ark of the covenant."

ROTHERHAM: "But after the second veil a tent, that which is called the Most Holy: having a GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE and the Ark of the Covenant."

AMPLIFIED NEW TESTAMENT: "But inside, beyond the second curtain or veil there stood another tabernacle (division) known as the Holy of Holies. It had the GOLDEN ALTAR OF INCENSE and the ark (chest) of the covenant."

So here we have nine different translations plus Strong's Concordance and Berry's Interlinear Greek-English New Testament that confirm the fact that the Greek word "Thumiasterion" translated in the King James as "golden censer", is actually the Golden Altar of Incense. And it is located inside the Holy of Holies, behind the veil.

Why In the Holy of Holies?

Is there a contradiction? We read that the Golden Altar was to be placed outside the veil, in the sanctuary, and that the priests were to minister before it daily. Now in Hebrews we read that it is inside the veil, in the Holy of Holies, where no one but the High Priest is allowed to enter, and that only once a year. Notice also that in Revelation 8:3 the Golden Altar was "before the throne", which is behind the veil. (Read Heb 9:7)

The answer is given by several authorities. ALFORD'S GREEK NEW TESTAMENT, WUEST'S STUDIES IN HEBREWS, the AMPLIFIED NEW TESTAMENT, as well as the Jewish MISCHNA all explain that the Golden Altar was not kept permanently in the Holy of Holies, but taken in on the Day of Atonement, the 10th day of the seventh month, when the High Priest went in to make atonement. The reason was that the High Priest might have a ;lace to set the censer of burning coals of fire from the brazen altar, so he would not have to set it on the ground inside the Holy of Holies. Most certainly he would not set it on the Mercy-seat. He could not hold the censer of fire in his hands while he ministered the blood upon the Mercy-seat.

We get the picture in Leviticus chapter 16. When the Day of Atonement comes, the day when someone passes through the Veil and all sin is removed from Israel, we see the High Priest washed and properly dressed. All the other priests that usually minister in the sanctuary before the candlestick and the shewbread are moved back out to the outer court. First he takes the Golden Altar behind the veil. Then he brings the censer of burning coals from the brazen altar and puts it on the Golden Altar. He then comes in with both hands full of incense (Leviticus 16:12 Amplified), which he puts on the fire, creating a cloud of incense. He then brings in the blood of the bullock and sprinkles it on the Mercy-seat. Then he kills the goat of the sin-offering and brings his blood in to put on the Mercy-seat also. (Leviticus 16:12-15). In addition to putting the blood on the Mercy-seat, he also put some of it on the horns of the Golden Altar of incense (Exodus 30:10). Meanwhile, while all this is going on, NO PRIEST IS ALLOWED IN THE SANCTUARY (Leviticus 16:17), but all must retreat to the outer court.

What Does This Mean to Us?

I am going to make a prediction now, based on the scriptures we have read, that will shake some theological traditions to the foundation. We know we are in the last days. It is time for the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. The trumpets are already blowing, that is, the message is already going forth to prepare for this great feast. The appearing of the Lord is at hand. Where will He appear? In the cloud. What cloud? Some rain cloud up in the sky? Of course not! You should know better than that. Leviticus 16:2 says that He will appear in the cloud of incense in the Holy of Holies. Only those who pass through the veil will see Him at this time. Unto them that look for Him shall He appear, to bring them to full salvation or deliverance from every earthly hindrance or limitation (Hebrews 9:28 Amplified).

That cloud of incense represents our worship and praise, brought into a higher realm than ever before known. Even in the Early Church, those who brought to pass the Feast of Pentecost, their worship was still in the lower earthly realm of the sanctuary. As supernatural as that place was, and as real as their relationship to the Lord proved to be, they were still in the sanctuary during the Feast of Pentecost, and not behind the veil.

At no time in the year did they put so much incense on the Golden Altar as they did on the Day of Atonement. "His two hands full of sweet incense beaten small." This shows us that our worship and praise and intercession is not only going to be brought into a higher realm than we have ever known it before, but also that there is going to be more of it than ever before. Praise God! He is wonderful!

Pentecost Retreats

As we have said before, the sanctuary where we find the candlestick and the table of shewbread represents this Holy Ghost realm of Pentecost. Jesus said that healing was the children's bread. (Mark 7:27). And here on this table (the lowest and most accessible piece of furniture in the tabernacle) were the twelve loaves of bread, available to the children of God (Mark 2:25-26). Our "daily bread". For when we get healed of one thing, we find ourselves coming back to the table for something else until death finally takes us. But thank God, that High-priestly company are going past the veil into a realm where there is "hidden manna". This "hidden manna" is eaten only by the Overcomer (Revelation 2:17). Whosoever eats of this manna shall never die. Death will be put under feet. So when the High-priest company go through the veil they do not have to take the shewbread of healing. They have divine Life in that realm of the fullness of God. No death, no sickness can touch them. Praise God! No "gifts" of the Spirit needed here.

Neither do they take the lampstand, or candlestick. For they have the light of His Presence, the Shekinah glory of God in the Holy of Holies. These two pieces of furniture are left in the sanctuary alone. For that realm is empty. There is no one to trim the lamps or eat of the shewbread. All those who do not go through the veil have to go to the outer court. Today many have been enjoying the grace of God, and operating in the supernatural realm of the Spirit in one degree or another. But we see a transition taking place. Either they are going on to higher heights in the Spirit, moving behind the veil toward the Holy of Holies, or they are losing what they did have. Pentecostal churches are going back to the formality and respectability of the traditional denominations. You see it everywhere. I know there are exceptions, and thank God for them. But you will have to choose. Either IN or OUT. This "part" realm is passing away. Either move on to the fullness of the Spirit, behind the veil, or you will find yourself without the gifts and the supernatural working of the Spirit as in days gone by. Now this doesn't mean that they are lost, or that they do not receive the blessing provided by this Atonement. Leviticus 16:18 (Amplified) says: "And he shall go out to the altar of burnt offering in the court which is before the Lord, and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and of the goat and put it on the horns of the altar round about. What it does mean is that those who have retreated to the outer court will not be among that "Zadok" company mentioned in Ezekiel chapter 44 who minister in the Holy of Holies unto the Lord.

Call it "Sonship", call it "Melchisedec priesthood", call it passing though the veil, coming into the fullness of God, the Manchild company, the High Calling, or whatever term you want to use. It still means that there is a people who are going all the way with God, to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29). You see them throughout the Book. The Bible is full of this truth.

The High Praises of God

Tho there is no need for the candlestick or the shewbread in the Most Holy Place, yet there is need for the Golden Altar. For coming into full Sonship will not stop us from worshipping God. Some poor men have been so deluded by evil spirits as to think that they are going to receive worship. So they call themselves God, and have quit praying to God in heaven, and have no spirit of worship toward Jesus. But such is not the case for true sons. When we pass into that high and glorious realm of the Spirit, we take our Altar of worship with us. But it also passes into a higher realm. So we see a higher form of worship than the world has ever known. As we approach that day, we find our worship reaching ever higher dimensions in the Spirit. We are getting rid of the "strange fire", the fleshly, carnal worship of tradition and ritualism. As well as the flesh-tingling liberties of fanaticism. There is plenty of liberty, oh yes, but it is a freedom harnessed by the Spirit of God and channeled into ever ascending praises to our Lord and King. It is a joy and a liberty that produces the fruit of the Spirit in abundance in our lives.

Notice in Revelation chapter 8 that at the time of the judgment trumpets, the Golden Altar is in the heavenlies before the throne of God. The Throne speaks to us of authority and dominion. Thus we see that there will be a realm of praise and worship and intercession that will have the very authority of God Himself behind it. And notice that at this time there was "much incense" offered. What a glorious ministry for those who go beyond the veil and are caught up into His Presence in the heavenlies. What a complete defeat for Satan as he faces this glorious Army of the Lord. Friends, don't miss out on this! Press your way in, as Paul said in Philippians 3:14 "I press on to the goal for the prize of God's high call in Christ Jesus." (Moffatt) Let us worship our Saviour, and offer to Him much incense with the fruit of our lips!


Grace and Peace Patrick

3 Well Done My Good and Faithful Servant on Tue May 28, 2013 8:43 am

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One problem carnal “man” (flesh) has with God’s Word is that he picks and chooses the verses that best suit his earthly ways and creates a partial theology to support/defend disobedience. Another, more serious problem, is that he (carnal man/flesh) incorrectly assumes that all the “I-made-it verses” apply to him. I have seen it in every church I have ever attended. I also see it in the vast majority (like 95%+) of the people my wife and I preach to daily.

This explains why you will not see me referencing or falling back on others' writings. If it is not something I have learned from the Lord (sometimes through others), I will not put it here. God told me up front not to be normalized or institutionalized by man or the man-made "church". I don't say this to offend or boast...but to be real, honest and up-front.

The following verses were also written to (and exclusively to) apostles and servants (mature witnessing disciples).

Galatians 1:10-12 (1+10=11= Two Witnesses/Apostle) (This is a 10/11 verse) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 (this is a 11/12 verse) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. (this is a 12 verse) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:27 (2+2+7=11=Two Anointed Witnesses/Apostle) But the anointing which Ye Have RECEIVED of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Matthew 8:8 (8+8=88 (Bible math)=8x11=11=Two Witnesses/Apostle The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but SPEAK THE WORD ONLY, and MY SERVANT shall be healed.

In the previous verse, the “centurion” is the 100-fold fruit barer…coded for the number 11 since 100=10x10 and there you can see the 10,000 x 10,000 = 1 and 1 = 11 = two witnesses/apostles. Until the whole lump is “elevened” with a “little” “eleven,” we are not made “whole” yet. He is an apostle/centurion because he is the carnal man that believes as did Sarah and Abram. Just like Mary when she says in Luke 2, behold the handmaiden of the Lord; be done unto me according to thy word. Esau (He-Saw) when he (carnal man) sells his birth-right to his younger brother (spirit man). Only way to escape the flesh is to give up and DO what He said to DO. Satan does not want the Kingdom to multiply...and God does! That is why He says "sow".

Here is one of my favorite passages…it is a promise to His servants and a threat to all others…

Rev 12-15 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

In Job 37 1-12 We see that Gods clouds "DO whatsoever He commandeth."

John 15:14 (1+5+1+4=11) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The Father loves those who DO whatsoever He commandeth...

Deuteronomy 10:12 (10+12=22=(11x2)) and this is a 12 verse! And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God REQUIRE of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to WALK in all his ways, and to love him, and to SERVE the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

If He is my MASTER, then I am HIS SERVANT.

If many are called and few are chosen...then I better be sure to answer when He calls. Smile
-----------

Now, back to the topic at hand "Death and 9"...

Here is a good transition verse back to the topic...

Hebrews 6:3 (6+3=9) And this will we DO, if God permit.

And I submit to you that "THIS" (above) is "DIE".

We must die daily, all the day long; the Lord delights in the death of His saints, living sacrifice; die of this world, overcome the accuser...love not your life unto death, our carnal fear of death is what gives Satan every right to keep us in bondage...but we should, rather, seek death of the flesh daily to be glorified/resurrected in the flesh. Won't happen until we tread on the scorpion's tail (looks just like a "9" and it is also the inverted "6" which is the number of the carnal man). It's power is in it's tail. Put the 6 in the grave and become an open/walking sepulcher...Jesus made His grave among sinful men....ME and YOU! This will we DO if God permit...turn verse 6 into a 9. It is so simple a CHILD can see it. However, only a Centurion can DO it.

Jeremiah 33:3 (Do I really need to do the math on this one?? OK, 3+3+3=9) Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

By now, it should be registering...I pray...

How about this one...

Jeremiah 32:27 (32+27=59 and 2+7=9) Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

How about now? See it? DEATH

Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well DOING: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Time for the harvest...DEATH

Hebrews 10:36 (3+6=9) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 (1+0+3+7=11) For yet a LITTLE (little ones) while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

The PROMISE is DEATH...then the second birth...BORN-AGAIN (2nd resurrection)...that is the promise of God and He is faithful to perform it!!!

Can't wait to hear all of my brothers' and sisters' views on death and life...

Your brother and servant, John

4 Re: Death and 9 on Tue May 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Patrick1


John W wrote:One problem carnal “man” (flesh) has with God’s Word is that he picks and chooses the verses that best suit his earthly ways and creates a partial theology to support/defend disobedience. Another, more serious problem, is that he (carnal man/flesh) incorrectly assumes that all the “I-made-it verses” apply to him. I have seen it in every church I have ever attended. I also see it in the vast majority (like 95%+) of the people my wife and I preach to daily.

This explains why you will not see me referencing or falling back on others' writings. If it is not something I have learned from the Lord (sometimes through others), I will not put it here. God told me up front not to be normalized or institutionalized by man or the man-made "church". I don't say this to offend or boast...but to be real, honest and up-front.

Hey John I fully understand what you are saying. and I am not offended in the least, nor do I think you are boasting in any way. Speaking the truth in love can appear to many that way but when you can truly see that you are simply sharing just what the Lord has given to you then I have absolutely no problem with how you are sharing.

In fact keep up the good work and let the Lord fully express Himself through you the way he wants to.

Now I fully agree with you that many men in their carnality cannot see and do pick and choose what they want to believe to be true. And they will share only just what they want you to believe, and if you don't accept their denomination's version then they will get angry with you and send you to hell do not pass go! Do not inherit eternal life!!!. Been there, done that, and have the t-shirt somewhere. Very Happy

Sometimes I will share what others have said, but only when I feel that the Spirit of God wants me to. I respect and truly appreciate that your material is all original. I have truly enjoyed what you are writing.

Now the reason I quoted bill Britton was for the simple fact that at the alter of incense the incense was offered twice a day once in the morning at the 3rd hour and later in the day at the 9th hour. This corresponded to Jesus being placed on the cross at the 3rd hour of the day, and Him dying at the 9th hour. I found this correlation between the two to be very interesting.

I agree absolutely that what was written was written to those who are mature. Babes and children are not going to understand fully what is written in scripture. You know even Paul declared that what he was writing was for those who were perfect.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


Love the rest of your post. but at this time I do not have the time to make any further comments because I must get ready for work.

Grace and Peace Patrick

5 Thanks Patrick on Tue May 28, 2013 6:07 pm

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Thank you Brother Patrick. I have enjoyed reading your posts. You have great insight.

Keep posting and sharing what God is giving you and we will continue to be edified.

In His Fellowship,
Your Brother - John

6 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:08 pm

srichard


well,I don't know how well I shall do putting this in words,sometimes

that is a hard thing to do. But I will try! lol! This is a comment

on the going behind the secound veil into the presence of God...

this takes the revealing of that which is covered[mysterys,third

testimony] to enter...that works the atonement[one mind with

Christ/Father] and also the seperating of you from sin[sent to

outer court]outside are the dogs,liars,murders=sin in your flesh.

flesh trampled/good as dead. the circumcision of the

heart/spirit of man..is the seperating of man from the body of sin

it results in the worshipping in the Holy of Holies in spirit and truth..and not an outer court ministry of the flesh of man.

thenew man is a spirituaal creature...he is no longer a flesh and blood man..but a resurrected quickened spirit. we are to no longer know Christ after the flesh..but by the spirit/after His death

Paul spoke of not desiring to be naked[out of his body] but clothed with Christ...the circumcized heart/spirit is naked before God..for it

is the spirit of the new creature seperate from it's flesh[Christ

appearing again seperate from sin[the body of death]

you see, what is in these humbled lowly vessel..is more important

than the vessel...and what is in it..the spirit creature can walk

through the walls of the vessel. there is no natural law or any law against that spirit creature..it can boldly Go into the presence of God/it's natural Father.

this creature changes it's garment whenever it leaves the Holy of Holies[as shown in shadow..of preistly garments changed.]

you see,Christ's outer garment/flesh born under law...was divided up at the cross..and a divided house can not stand.....but the inner garment[the circumcized spirit creature] lots are cast for it..

and the casting of every lot into the lap is of God. And those whose

lot is the seamless inner garment are the overcomers. Daniel was told he would 'rest' and then stand up for his lot. And so,to stand

it needs be a seaamless inner garment[spirit creature..seperate

from outer garment/flesh/clay vessel]

hard put to say this....

when the flesh is dead it rests it doesn't work[the hour comes when no man can work] but at resurrection the spirit arises and stands[lift yourselve erect] and the quickened spirit allows this

new spiritual body to take any any form it desires...and because it is a quickened spirit it is of Christ spirit,Father/spirit Holy
spirit..and is found in the Holy of Holies[2 cherubs shikinah]

and it consumes hidden manna.....


does anybody 'get this"

7 Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:17 pm

srichard


and so,because this spirit creature is one mind soul and body

with Christ and Father..when Christ or Father or Holy spirit

says 'go' do thus and thus it instantly does..in spirit form

it flies with the clouds of heaven...and meets with Him there

8 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:31 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Hi sheila,

Yes, it makes sense to me...and how wonderful it is...
This is why John could say what he did....

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Our New spirit creature cannot sin....it is totally separate from the Flesh....This is also why...even our flesh is justified by Faith in Christ.....because it's not by The Law which continually holds us guilty and requires death as the penalty.....but through Faith....we see Jesus....who paid the full wages for sin in the flesh....not to mention the fact that it was because of this that actually causes us to be able to SEE HIM.....Because His Flesh was The Veil....

Good stuff Sheila
Blessings





The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

9 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:21 pm

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srichard wrote:

and so,because this spirit creature is one mind soul and body

with Christ and Father..



ARTIC wrote:

Our New spirit creature cannot sin....it is totally separate from the Flesh...

Now it appears to me that we have a fundamental disconnect...

I have to agree with srichard. Our born-AGAIN spirit creature is ONE mind, soul and BODY....yes....FLESH included....and, yes, our flesh is not here to worship the image of the beast....it must be resurrected before we enter into the "rest"...that many have apparently found with sin included free of charge...no need to feel bad...keep on sinning that grace may abound...walk after the flesh...sounds too much like the churches I left! They also have no problem with sin. Be Holy....Be ye perfect....yes, even in this "earthly" stage of our lives...

If you have Christ as the Head of your body, and have PUT ON Christ (His armor....includes:righteousness and faith)...then you are ABOVE the law and FULFILL the law just as Christ did. Every member of the body is under subjection/submission to Christ, Jesus....HEAD of the CHURCH....which is me and you, NOT the building. You have, then, been delivered from this wretched body of death. AMEN!

If you are still sinning and taking no responsibility for your flesh, then you are not born again....You are only "born" and have not experienced the resurrection of your flesh and it has NOT become one with your spirit....under subjection to your spirit.

Have to agree with srichard on this point.

The works I do in my Father's name testify about me...

Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. ... If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me.

Faith without works is dead. Show me your faith alone and I will show you my faith by my works.

The ONE who keeps His works until the end...WILL HE give authority over the nations (the FLESH)...!!!

Hebrews 4:8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11LET US LABOUR therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

LET US LABOUR thereFOUR (go forth) to (TWO witness) enter into (inTWO) that rest, lest any MAN FLL after the same example of unbelief.

We have to ask ourselves if we have ceased from our own vain works (filthy rags) and begun to do the Father's will and works...which is the labour that will earn us the final place of rest.

Feed the poor and preach the gospel...

What did Jesus do? He literally fed carnal food to the poor, healed the sick, preached the gospel to the poor (humble/contrite/broken), delivered...

If God has changed what He expects us to do as His manifested Sons, He hasn't told me to stop serving Him in the ONLY way He ever prescribed/COMMANDED.

If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?

As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but ..... food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

I will do the will of him who sent me and to finish his WORK...

The works I do in my Father's name testify about me...

Off to Boston to preach, heal, deliver and SERVE my Master.

Plan on "MEATING" / COMMUNING with God in the CLOUD (where I CryoutLOUD) of witnesses...

btw - I would like to know if any manifested Sons here have been shown the seven seals by God?

Your brother and servant,
John

10 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:31 pm

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Hi John Welcome back,

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Blessings to you
Brother




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

11 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:02 pm

cross-eyed

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Yet another really great conversation guys . . . John you wrote

If you are still sinning and taking no responsibility for your flesh, then you are not born again....You are only "born" and have not experienced the resurrection of your flesh and it has NOT become one with your spirit....under subjection to your spirit.

I'm struggling with the abrasiveness of how this seems to be coming across to me. I'm not sure I see the perfection physically happening in completion when we're living in bodies and a realm that's anything "but" perfection. It's the stumbling block the religious struggle getting over when we declare that in the end, all end up in the same place. They immediately revert to the idea that we're saying we can do whatever we want, live however we want and sin as much as we want and still go to heaven . . . and technically, that may be true, but by no means are we using the cross as a reason to live however my "self" wants to live. There are always consequences to our choices and lifestyles.

What comes to mind when I read what you've written here is the woman caught in the act of adultery . . .Jesus told her to go and sin no more . . . just like what you're saying here. However, I'm thinking several things on this, for one, I'm thinking the translation has more than likely lost the full effect of what Jesus actually did say to her. I think what Jesus was essentially saying to her is that he has erased the debt that sin had her bound with.

Go and sin no more, for me isn't a thing we can physically accomplish. It's a spiritual state more than a physical activity. Which is why the passage Scherryl quoted is there. It's impossible for sin to have a hold on me, but I'm still living in a body of flesh and as such, this body is still prone to be tempted and at times succumb to those temptations . . .but to say it's because I'm not born again is a bit aggressive of a claim for me to embrace.

Paul even openly spoke about the struggles that went on inside of him . . .is this to say he wasn't born again either? I have found personally in my own life and in my own relationship with the Father that there "is" an answer to all of this . . .pursue Christ. It's just that simple.

Yes, I'll still mess up . . .yes I'll go through dry spells where everything seems to come out gray rather than crystal. Does that mean I'm not born again? To go down that road for me is to focus more on what I do than who I am. Or basing my relationship more on what or how I'm feeling rather than what I'm hearing or seeing. Relying on our natural senses will always mess things up for us as our senses our merely extensions of our minds . . .carnal/natural minds.

I'm born again . . .I'm baptized even . . .my mind has been renewed . . .but my body is still under the influences of death and destruction in this realm . . .it can't touch my spirit, but it can affect my mind/soul/flesh very much. If I get cut, I bleed. If I bleed too much . . .I die . . .it's the nature of this realm we live in. But it has no bearing on who I am, that is the one thing this realm will never affect because it's something God himself has established. Our minds can lie to us, deceive us and even convince us we're less than who we are, but it doesn't change the fact of who we are. It only changes our image of who we think we are.

Sin does the same thing . .. it rules this realm. it claims these bodies of flesh we dwell in. But we are not of this realm and these are only temporary dwellings. The perfection comes from within, not so much measured by what we're doing on the outside. All though there is a manifestation in our actions . . .but again, my actions are based on my identity . . .not the other way around.

I guess what I'm saying is, none of us are perfect. But we're all perfected in Him.

12 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:05 pm

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John W wrote:srichard wrote:

and so,because this spirit creature is one mind soul and body

with Christ and Father..



ARTIC wrote:

Our New spirit creature cannot sin....it is totally separate from the Flesh...

Now it appears to me that we have a fundamental disconnect...

I have to agree with srichard. Our born-AGAIN spirit creature is ONE mind, soul and BODY....yes....FLESH included....and, yes, our flesh is not here to worship the image of the beast....it must be resurrected before we enter into the "rest"...that many have apparently found with sin included free of charge...no need to feel bad...keep on sinning that grace may abound...walk after the flesh...sounds too much like the churches I left! They also have no problem with sin. Be Holy....Be ye perfect....yes, even in this "earthly" stage of our lives...

If you have Christ as the Head of your body, and have PUT ON Christ (His armor....includes:righteousness and faith)...then you are ABOVE the law and FULFILL the law just as Christ did. Every member of the body is under subjection/submission to Christ, Jesus....HEAD of the CHURCH....which is me and you, NOT the building. You have, then, been delivered from this wretched body of death. AMEN!

If you are still sinning and taking no responsibility for your flesh, then you are not born again....You are only "born" and have not experienced the resurrection of your flesh and it has NOT become one with your spirit....under subjection to your spirit.

Have to agree with srichard on this point.

The works I do in my Father's name testify about me...

Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. ... If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me.

Faith without works is dead. Show me your faith alone and I will show you my faith by my works.

The ONE who keeps His works until the end...WILL HE give authority over the nations (the FLESH)...!!!

Hebrews 4:8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11LET US LABOUR therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

LET US LABOUR thereFOUR (go forth) to (TWO witness) enter into (inTWO) that rest, lest any MAN FLL after the same example of unbelief.

We have to ask ourselves if we have ceased from our own vain works (filthy rags) and begun to do the Father's will and works...which is the labour that will earn us the final place of rest.

Feed the poor and preach the gospel...

What did Jesus do? He literally fed carnal food to the poor, healed the sick, preached the gospel to the poor (humble/contrite/broken), delivered...

If God has changed what He expects us to do as His manifested Sons, He hasn't told me to stop serving Him in the ONLY way He ever prescribed/COMMANDED.

If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?

As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but ..... food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

I will do the will of him who sent me and to finish his WORK...

The works I do in my Father's name testify about me...

Off to Boston to preach, heal, deliver and SERVE my Master.

Plan on "MEATING" / COMMUNING with God in the CLOUD (where I CryoutLOUD) of witnesses...

btw - I would like to know if any manifested Sons here have been shown the seven seals by God?

Your brother and servant,
John

Brother John,
God forbid if I'm wrong here,....but I sense a bit of sarcasm in your words to us....forgive me if I've misunderstood you...

Dear Brother John,

There is nothing wrong in being a servant and Knowing He is our Master....But there is so much more...we don't stop being servants because we become sons...just like we don't stop being disciples when we become Apostles....or kings when we become Priests...it is a progression of our walk...

Yes, Jesus did all those things when He was walking on this earth....but He is now Risen and has been Glorified and the greater works that He spoke of that we would do...is what we speak of here in this forum....
A servant does not always abide in the house...but a Son does....only then can we Truly be about our Father's business...

But again I ask you which is Greater?

To feed the hungry literal food, or see them fed with The Spiritual Food? Please don't get me wrong here, you never not do the first, but there is much more....Amen?

Which is Greater to see the dead raised to life literally, or see them raised to The Life in Christ?

If you cut off your hand because you sin with it, Do you not have another that can easily do the same? There is so much more...

I think I speak for us all here in this forum....when I say....that we all have been where you are Brother....but have you been where we are yet?

Please do not misunderstand my question....it's not boasting in ourselves but in Him and His works in us....they are NOT our own....

Blessings





The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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13 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:16 pm

srichard


yeah..before entering the secound curtain Holy of Holies

it is reckoned dead because of sin..but when it is resurrected it is another type of flesh..celestial..like Christ's..that can walk through walls..and enter the prescence of God..for He bore sins once..and tasted deathfor all men

the resurrected body is a spirit/celestal body..not a natural body. It can take on many forms.

If we are to no longer 'know' Christ after the flesh

when He is risen..why should we be reckoned a Christ's natural flesh[body] any longer..but in the new celestial

body[spirit body] Youv'e alraedy done that so you partake

in the likeness of His death..through shewbread..candlesticks etc

the lying down of the life occurrs before you enter the

secound curtain..it is a celestial spiritual body with which

you enter..a body that is not hurt of any secound death

appointed to men to die once and then the resurrection

Christ appears again..apart from sin...you can't put

the fullness in the old winesking vessel..or it will rent it...the 'rent' allows the new vessel[celestail spirit

flesh] to come forth..the spirit is free from any old

natural vessel that should contain it....thuogh is it

remain in the old vessel it should also appear as alive..through the life in it.

If it is a you say....then Jesus instaed of ascending

would have to also lay down His resurrected body again

this is what the first resurrection is about...the ministry of spirit[knowing Christ no longer after the flesh]

know..to be one with...Adam 'knew" Eve=one natural flesh

it is sown a natural body..it is raised[resurrection]

a spiritual body. this way the weak flesh is put under the feet. Have you not read...we shall not all taste death

but be chaanged. death of the flesh and the resrrection

is required to enter the Holy of Holies..after the pattern

of Christ's resurrection. the celestial flesh is not

under the law..for the law was written for the lawless one

so I disgree with you on that point..when His spirit come

in us we become one in body with Him..that natural body

carry's the cross to the death of the flesh..the new creature is a celestial body..and one with Him in the new celestial body. This is the manifestation of the sons of God. Jesus did not offer up His celestial body on the torture stake after it was resurrected..indeed it can not
be harmed by a secound death..for it is the first resurrection in His likeness.

not all flesh is the same flesh, I think that is where

we differ on this,brother. thus not 'all' shall die.

14 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:59 pm

Guest


Guest
All, Sorry if it come across abrasively and/or sarcastic. It is simply truth as He has taught me. We are getting somewhere however as we dissect this.

My comments are His comments.... Not directed at anybody in particular. They are directed at anyone and everyone that identifies themselves as a manifested/anointed "son of God" and continues to struggle with sin. This is simply not possible. We become "Sons" at "11"...

Here is a very short list of hundreds of "11-verses" that confirm "son-ship" to those that are sons of God

Luke 3:22 (22=11x2); And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Matthew 3:17 (3+1+7=11); And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Hosea 1:10 (1+10=11); Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Romans 8:14 (8+14=22=11x2); For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

John 3:35 (3+3+5=11); The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Galatians 4:7 (4+7=11); Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


No man can have a relationship with God and SIN at the same time. (whether the relationship is comfortable or uncomfortable). God will not come near it...that was what Jesus came to get rid of if we would follow Him as a called Disciple....path to son-ship.

This is how I know. (and I hope this won't offend anyone...but it is TRUE). After my (wife and daughter included) "conversions" two years ago (he took the entire family at one time), I/we have not once committed a single act of known/premeditated disobedience (AKA sin...of any/all types). Further, when I was born- AGAIN (2nd birth=latter rain/God's REIGN) (1st birth=former rain/Christ's REIGN), He systematically shattered every single addiction to sin I and my family ever had. (I WAS STRUGGLING WITH SIN MY ENTIRE CHRISTIAN LIFE....He sure had a work to do in my sorry self)!!! AND I SAY THAT WITH EMPHASIS....no Holy roller here...

I proclaim this to give HIM GLORY and to encourage you that it is possible. The secret is to follow Him like He said and DO what He said. He meant it. I mean it. I am proof if you might believe on the ONE He sent to you today.

Who can put flesh on these bONES (elevens...little ONEs....Apostles....TWO witnesses).

The bONES will be broken but when we become ONE (spirit and flesh together), not a single bONE will be broken.

It is all there.

Flesh of my flesh and bONE (12) of my bONES (11)...

We die in at "9" (check out my first post).

Check out Jeremiah 8:1 (8+1=9)

AT THAT TIME, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:

You will know that you are in the rest when He gives you the seven seals that unlock the "show-bread"...the "back-side" of the Bible....this will only come when He Wills and we surrender to walking in the shadow of His Son, Jesus Christ, and that, my beloved, is the "SHADOW of DEATH"....because paradise on this earth is not heaven...it is experienced in He-ll "He with ll" in the hottest battle....where Urias will surely die. PARADISE is where the PARA (pair of) ONES DIES ("pair-a-dies"). And when any MAN sees God, He will surely die. And after we eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and drink the cup of the filth of our fornication, we will surely die....we will go unworthily to communion to "MEAT" God in the thick clouds of darkness...as the children are cast into outer darkness...HELL...for me it happens to be the streets of Detroit. A battle is raging there I assure you. No battle, then NO ARMOR (God doesn't waste anything). I MEAT God every day as I follow His Son into the streets...where the two witnesses, anointed with power, torment those that DWELL ON THE EARTH (flesh=earth)...where fire procedes out of my mouth and I slay multitudes. Because of this, I was slain from the foundation of the earth (my flesh) and I am now in the clouds and my eye is single. I come in the clouds (the dust (ashes/death) of God's feet and every eye (singular ONE EYE) of mine shall/does see. I had TWO coats as an apostle and gave ONE away, two hands, two feet....I now have ONE and not a single bONE (12) will not be broken.

I want you all to have it and follow Jesus, Paul, and yes, even me, because I am walking in the pattern of their steps.

You will experience His POWER if you are a Son. Deliverance, healing, preaching, signs, wonders, miracles...much more....every day all day...as you fight the fight that His Kingdom will come on Earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. In the flesh as it is in the Spirit (TODAY)...not after your time here is over.

God knows I speak the truth...because it is not I but He who is speaking to you right now.

Hopefully this will be the day of provocation for some...

And the abomination of desolation is set up by God.

Your brother and servant,
John



Last edited by John W on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

15 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:26 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Dear brother John.

Why don't you "rest" in "LIFE" rather than "work" to avoid death?



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

16 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:43 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Our Dearest Brother John,

We need to go back to the beginning for a moment, because we are trying to understand what is going on here. When you first approached Artic because of her e-mail name (2b4Him), we were under the impression that you wanted to understand what we have come to believe.

But by everything you are posting on the forum, you are telling us what you believe and not trying to understand why we believe what we do … and that is because, when it comes to salvation, there are only three possibilities, the “none” point of view (which is that no one will be saved), the second is the “some” point of view (which is that some will be saved and some won’t), the third being, the “all” point of view (which is that all will be saved).

You are in the “some” point of view and this forum is in the “all” point of view. Again, we were under the impression that you wanted to understand our point of view or at least be open to it. In other words, we thought that God had brought you to us so you “could” understand our point of view.

If you truly wanted to understand what we believe, you would be asking the questions of: “why we believe what we do” when it comes to any reference to Scripture, instead you “tell” us what you believe and use other Scripture to back up your beliefs. Now, we can do the same, but it will just be each of us just going back and forth.

This forum was not brought about in order to become just like every other forum, which is everyone just trying to defend their point of view. Our point of view is set and so is yours, but we would like to say, we have already been in that point of view and have been taken out of it, and we do not want to return to that point of view and that is simply because, it is better to save a man from the evil within than to condemn him for it. In other words, we have come to understand that God’s whole purpose is to destroy the evil “IN” a man rather than destroy the man, and that is because, if the evil “IN” a man is destroyed, “THAT” is what saves the man.

If you do not want to understand why we believe what we do and your whole purpose for coming to this forum was to get us to come around to your point of view, you are wasting your time. Please do not “tell” us what you believe, we already know what you believe, because we have been there.

With love we say these things, but this is “A Place to Rest” in understanding salvation, not a place to argue points of how to get it. We have been freely given salvation from condemnation, not condemnation from God, but from others and from within ourselves which comes through the carnal nature which is in the mind. It is “UNDERSTANDING” the salvation that we have been given that is important to us, for we already “know” we have received it.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

17 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:51 pm

cross-eyed

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Here is a perfect example of harmony . . .I wrote my message at the same time Jugghead wrote his. After reading his, I hear the same exact sound in his post that I have in mine . . .I've left it as I originally wrote it. See what you hear as you read it as well. Blessings.

-------------------------------------

Brother John, and you "are" our brother and I do hope you can feel the family bond we all are sharing with each other through the spirit. There are things you are saying that kind of aren't meshing with how love operates . . .the thing is, everything everyone here has been sharing are things God has told or revealed. But the thing is, what he reveals to one, doesn't necessarily mean that it applies to another. So when God tells "you" this or that, it doesn't always mean that what he told you is something that everyone else is to adhere to. I hope I'm making more sense than offense.

So when you say, "well, God told me this and that's how it's going to be . . ." It kind of takes away the opportunity for others to come along side of you and embrace what you're saying when they're not in the same place. I noticed this a little earlier when you spoke about how you don't read books because what you get is directly from God . . . what you effectively did was, you implied that anyone that read a book is merely listening to men and not God. Everyone here reads books . . .I've even written one of my own that I've posted on this very forum.

In fact, when you post your comments, is that not the same as someone writing a book? Just a smaller version, but if we're to adhere to that kind of thinking, then none of us would give anyone else the time of day because we all think that God only speaks to us directly when the truth of the matter is, God speaks to me through Rose, through Scherryl, through Jugghead . . .through Rob Bell who's written several books that the church has denounced and others have embraced.

And I'm not sure I follow the numbers thing either really. I'm not denouncing it, but the numbered verses were never a part of Scripture. I am a huge fan and supporter of seeing spiritual patterns through numbers in scripture, but I'm at a bit of a loss at embracing verse eleven meaning witness because 1+1 is two . . .but what about the next chapter, or the next book? If it can't be applied the same every time there is a verse 11, then even that can become a cherry picking issue can it not?

There's a passage in Act where a couple people were really on fire for God and they were spreading the gospel everywhere they went, and when Paul and Silas . . I think it was them . . .that heard them, Peter could have been a part of that one, I'm not sure . . but when they heard them, it says they pulled them aside and showed them a better way. it's with that in mind that I bring these issues up and in hopes that your humility over-rides any offense that this may stir up. It's not my intention to come off as one who sees themselves above any other and I certainly am no authority over anyone here. It's with all the love and humility that I can muster that I present these things to you.

Blessings in Christ . . .

18 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Guest


Guest
JUGGHEAD WROTE:

Why don't you "rest" in "LIFE" rather than "work" to avoid death?

Because I have already died and have been resurrected. I do no work, rather I am a branch attached to the vine. This is the rest and true peace that surpasses all understanding.

I can do nothing of myself.

Just like Jesus said and did...

Brothers



19 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:03 pm

Rosered


wow , hope to come back soon , got company
Love to you all !!

20 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:06 pm

Guest


Guest
I receive and accept the points laid against me. And I am departing permanently from this forum.

I would be very happy to be removed from this fellowship IMMEDIATELY...as a matter of fact I rejoice. I have no other choice...God is clear.

I am no greater than my Master.

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


I was the voice of ONE/JOHN crying out in the wilderness make straight the way of Lord. REPENT YE...for the Kingdom of heaven is hand...

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the unGodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

May God Bless and Keep You ALL...

Good Bye...

Love, Your brother and servant, John

21 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:14 pm

Patrick1


John

Go in peace of the Lord and may God bless you in all He has ordained for you to accomplish in this earth.

Grace and peace Patrick

22 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:32 pm

srichard


I wrote a post,and it's not here,I don't know if it was sent or not?

coz immediately he left. So did it post and have to be removed?

for cozing offense..or did it just not post.

23 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:39 pm

cross-eyed

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I don't think it was removed . . . it would take quite a bit for us to go to that extent. Smile

24 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:39 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Sheila, LOL...

That would never happen sweetie....I love what you have to say....

If anyone caused offense it was the two Rebel Rousers above you.....LOL just kidding...

It was not removed it just didn't go through evidently.

Try again..




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

25 Re: Death and 9 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:42 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Also too, sometimes you can just continue to hit your back button on the browser until it comes up again in tack...




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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