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1 Another ... outside the box on Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:43 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Romans 1:1)

I often wonder when I read the words "called to be an apostle" is translated the way it should be. The reason I think about it is because of the original meanings, the word translated as "called" means invited, and the word "apostle" means a delegate.

If we do not use the words that were added, meaning the words "to be" we get the term "invited delegates" and by this we can get the picture that if this letter is written by Paul and if he is of Christ with the mind of Christ, there would be no pride in who he is ... confidence in what he speaks yes ... but no pride in who he is in Christ.

With this being said, I myself do not believe that Paul, if he has the Spirit of humbleness would not start out every one of his letters with statements of credibility, meaning terms like "called as an apostle" or "called to be an apostle" or "set apart for the gospel". I myself believe that the beginning of each of his letters is describing his actions to those he finds to be delegates or ambassadors of Christ.

He is inviting them to hear and understand the good news (the Gospel) that was shown directly to him and taught to him directly from Christ after he had his experience on the road to Damascus and he went into the wilderness to be taught directly and that is because we have come to understand that after his experience he did not consult men (flesh and blood) to understand the truth.

His purpose was always to exalt Christ in what He had done for mankind by His death upon the cross.

And to me, it makes no sense that Paul would first exalt himself by stating who he was in regards to the good news.

When we read "separated unto the gospel of God" or "set apart for the Gospel", I believe this is what Paul was doing with the delegates that he invited ... separating them from the religious mindset of the time, for is that not what we are called to do?

Do we say we are apostles or ambassadors of Christ as the first thing out of our mouths when we are bringing the good news of the forgiveness of sins to others? No, it is not, it is always focused upon the good news and trying to explain what the good news is so that others can understand it in order to know that they will not receive shame, guilt or condemnation from God if they happen to do what doesn't please God.

Just thinking out load and was led to post this ... would also like input from others about this.

Jugghead



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

2 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:57 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Jugg,..[quote]Do we say we are apostles or ambassadors of Christ as the first thing out of our mouths when we are bringing the good news of the forgiveness of sins to others?

No...It's "knowing" we are, by being partakers in the fellowship of His sufferings as Paul was..."For His Great Name/Natures sake"...that causes us to walk in, and speak of, the forgiveness of sin to others. Only God can change the Nature of man...man can't do it....Keeping the Law can't do it.

Great insight Jug...For if our heart condemns us..God is Greater than our heart...

Which to me brings up another question...Does God see past the Sacrifice of His Son today....to see sin as others see sin...or...Must He see it totally removed because of The Lamb....so it only exist in the mind of men? In fact this brings up a whole bunch of questions in my mind to explore... Smile

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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3 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:32 pm

cross-eyed

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Jugg, that's an awesome observation. I love it when a revelation causes scripture to fall into it's place without logic or reason getting in the way. And I agree in your line of questioning. It would bring the humility back into Paul's purpose for writing his claims. They weren't to be used as a means to coerce the reader to bow down to Paul's authority. But instead, they were used as words that affirm the message he delivered was from the source of life rather than religion. It was more of a nudging than aggression.

To Scherryl's observation, the verse that popped into my head was Roman's 3 . . .20? I think? Where it says that law is the knowledge of sin . . .for God to acknowledge the sin in us now would mean that the law is still intact. Ah!! It "was" Romans 3:20!

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (Law invokes guilt)

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Just for the fun of it . . .here's what the Message Translation says on the matter.

This makes it clear, doesn’t it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it’s clear enough, isn’t it, that we’re sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God’s revelation doesn’t put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else’s sin.

21-24 But in our time something new has been added. What Moses and the prophets witnessed to all those years has happened. The God-setting-things-right that we read about has become Jesus-setting-things-right for us. And not only for us, but for everyone who believes in him. For there is no difference between us and them in this. Since we’ve compiled this long and sorry record as sinners (both us and them) and proved that we are utterly incapable of living the glorious lives God wills for us, God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we’re in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ.

I LOVE the purity of Truth. Religion has inflated this whole process to be all about US. About our actions, our confessions . . .yeah, it's a free gift . . BUT . . you have to say such and such . . .or do this or that. But the purity of truth doesn't give ANY credit to man for righteousness. God came . . .HE saw . . .and HE conquered!!

Yes and amen to that!!!

Oh . . by the way . . .


GO HAWKEYES!! (Iowa basketball . . .)

4 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:24 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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What Scherryl said about "knowing" brings to mind that ... yes we know ... but we do not brag to others about it ... again because it is all about Christ and what He has done for us.

and Nathan, what you said about bringing humility back into Paul's writings ... I find that so true ... because is it not the mindset of religion to place others either up on a pedestal (or pulpit) or below their own understanding.

What I have come to understand, with talking to Scherryl more lately, it is not really putting others above or below in understanding but a greater "depth" of understanding and depth speaks of going below or under which "IS" a place of humility ... which of course is the humility of Christ in us ... because our own (Adam) nature wants to place itself at the top.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

5 Re: Another ... outside the box on Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:06 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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jugghead wrote:What Scherryl said about "knowing" brings to mind that ... yes we know ... but we do not brag to others about it ... again because it is all about Christ and what He has done for us.

and Nathan, what you said about bringing humility back into Paul's writings ... I find that so true ... because is it not the mindset of religion to place others either up on a pedestal (or pulpit) or below their own understanding.

What I have come to understand, with talking to Scherryl more lately, it is not really putting others above or below in understanding but a greater "depth" of understanding and depth speaks of going below or under which "IS" a place of humility ... which of course is the humility of Christ in us ... because our own (Adam) nature wants to place itself at the top.

I have never quoted myself on this forum, but just wanted to point out what looks or sounds strange ... that of "below or above" and then I speak of it in the context of humility ....

With that being said I would like to take out some words that might cause confusion ... Those words being ...

of going below or under which "IS" .....

so it should read .....

What I have come to understand, with talking to Scherryl more lately, it is not really putting others above or below in understanding but a greater "depth" of understanding and depth speaks of a place of humility ... which of course is the humility of Christ in us ... because our own (Adam) nature wants to place itself at the top.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

6 Annointed Ones/Little Ones = 11 on Sat May 18, 2013 9:01 pm

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Jugghead, Thanks for starting this thread. This is my first post...so hopefully, i can be clear and succinct:

What I am going to write is not taught of men...but directly of our Lord Jesus Christ...I am also writing as a called Apostles and servant of Jesus. (I was "APPOINTED before His face")... Luke 10:1 (10+1=11)...He sent us out [two and two...we go "Fourth"]... 2+2=4. In "Bible math" 2+2 also = 22 and now we have 2 x 11.

Hang with me...

Numbers unlock the entire Bible for us...that is IF we are obedient and simply do whatever He says (John 2). Mary is wisdom and this is W-I-S-D-O-M (W=worship and M=meditate) then you are left with "IS" and "DO"....it "is" revealed when we "do" His will.

Paul starts most of His letters (that is the 1:1's) with his "coded" identification as an "Apostle." (11 is the number of an Apostle). You can see the little "ones" right there in front of your eyes. This correlates to the two (1+1) witnesses from chapter "11" of Revelation. These are the TWO olive trees, the golden pipes, the anointed ones (Heb "sons of oil") that stand by the Lord of the whole earth...That's Zech 4. We cannot enter in unless we come as these little ones! Many are called but "FEW" are chosen. "Few" shall find it. (FEW = 2 = 1+1=11)

(He sent His witnesses out 2 and 2) that is why we find this in Chapt 4 of Zech. We go FORTH="FOURTH" TWO and TWO! 2+2=4. The numbers are given to those led by the Spirit into the wilderness (Luke 4) like Jesus...we must order/number/pattern our steps after His.

After our "first resurrection," He gives us the "third day" or "third room" revelation...as He rises again, IN US, on the third day. However, this is just the first set of three revelatory numbering conventions that were unlocked in sequence for me. We must "GO FORTH" to bear fruit and multiply His numbers. We must be numbered for "FOUR" battle as it says over and over in the "FOURTH" book of the Bible ---- NUMBERS!!!! The seven seals of Rev 5:5 (5+5=55 and 55=5x11...more Bible math) are the seven "locks" of Sampson's hair. They must be "cut" or...opened. Then we, like Sampson can have the two pillars (1 and 1 are the pillars = 11) collapse in our dying act...as all of our flesh and sin nature is eliminated/subdued by Christ, Jesus.

The is hidden and revealed in three measures...until the "whole" is leavened ("elevened"). And we become the cloud of witnesses... 10,000 x 10,000 = 11 = verse 11 ...see the ones?

When we have gone "fourth" for 40 years/days (more on "40" later)...suffice it to say that this is the testing/maturation period. Afterwards, we are then appointed as Apostles. First delegates, then "appointees". Now we have gone fourth and become Apostles...(4x11=44)...and the Acts of the Apostles is the 44th book of the Bible. Every book has a number and a meaning! We can eventually understand by book.

There is still much more to share beyond this...but I throw this out as an appetizer for any an hungered. I tend to go on and on with this stuff...so I am going to use some carnal discretion and stop and see if anybody wants more...



Last edited by John W on Sat May 18, 2013 9:41 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add-on thoughts)

7 Re: Another ... outside the box on Mon May 20, 2013 11:26 am

Holly1

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Welcome John! A lot of this stuff goes over my head. But I read your post last night and then a little while later I was reading something else and he used the word fourth rather than forth just like you did. I do believe it was accidentally but it reminded me of your post. To be appointed before His face... what an awesome privilege! Thank you for sharing.

8 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed May 22, 2013 2:17 pm

todosan


Hey John, good to see you here... Very cool.. this is Todd. Todo is Japanese for sea lion... it is a very long story...and I don't know if those here will appreciate it...

I don't want to highjack Jugg's thread, so I am going to start a new one. Something very powerful afoot.

9 Re: Another ... outside the box on Thu May 23, 2013 10:48 am

Rosered


I love how everyone here IS being taught by the Holy Spirit

is skilled in the scriptures , so many great insights as the Holy Spirit teaches us to grow in Truth and grace

I agree with Jugg its not the knowledge that puffs up
but the Love that edifies Christ Body / Church

I love how Paul was sent to be a Light unto the Gentiles / nations , being predictited in the old testament of Isaiah , it was Christ of course

the annoited of God [Holy Spirit sons of fresh oil ] Paul was in the Father and Son and dwelling him being an eathly witness as well , but prepared by the Lord to be sent and represent in his steed , speaking with tongues of men and angels /messengers
both spiritual truth and able to talk to men not yet born again by faith in Jesus Christ , because faith comes by hearing what the Spirit of Truth is saying though whatever vessel the Lord chooses to send


Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;



Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


Isa 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.


Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.


on the road to Damascus , Pauls scales fell off , that being the Leviathan [Levi priesthood= joined and attached being a pharrisee and of the tribe of Benjamin son of the right hand ] by the blood of bulls and goats killing [ thinking they are doing God a service ] Job 40 [King over all the children of pride ]
to the Melkesidec priesthood saving Life though the Blood of the Lamb of God
but first Paul was blinded by the very Light [Christ coming ] to change Him and His priesthood , to be a vessel to suffer also for Jesus names sake

a prophecy fulfilled when making the blind to see and the ones who see made blind by the Light of His coming , Paul saw Jesus after Christ rose from the dead and was poured out into Pauls flesh another prophecy fulfilled
the testimony of Jesus Christ is the SPIRIT of Prophecy

there is so much to be blessed by when reading His Holy Word by His Holy Spirit , we are filled with His presence and and its a life of its own !!! So thankful for His mercy on us all

Blessings from on High , the day spring from on High has visited us !! Rose

10 Re: Another ... outside the box on Thu May 23, 2013 11:05 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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todosan wrote:Hey John, good to see you here... Very cool.. this is Todd. Todo is Japanese for sea lion... it is a very long story...and I don't know if those here will appreciate it...

I don't want to highjack Jugg's thread, so I am going to start a new one. Something very powerful afoot.

Hey Todd ..... I want... in fact I "need" to hear the story ... what you say is a long story about the sea lion ... it is what we .. or others may see as a small thing can have the most impact in someone's life

With that being said ... I would greatly appreciate what you have to say

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

11 Re: Another ... outside the box on Thu May 23, 2013 11:11 am

A.R.T.I.C

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John....
So sorry for the late "Welcome" but "Welcome to The forum... Smile I'm still trying to digest your first post...but I'm fascinated by it...you will be a great delight and an awesome witness "2" The Truth that has been revealed in all of us here.

Rose....Thank you for that insight to Paul's scales...I never saw it like that before....but I hear and agree.... I love you

Blessings to you both
AJ




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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12 Thanks AJ on Thu May 23, 2013 3:47 pm

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Thank you ARTIC/AJ. I am enjoying the forum and the great display of God's glory as we sharpen iron together...in His truth and fellowship.

Your Brother, John

13 Re: Another ... outside the box on Thu May 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Rosered



Blessings AJ ,
I know I love it when the Holy Spirit reveals things like this to build upon the foundational Truths in the Spiritual sense , its soooo hard to find the like minded
the litral ones get frustrated with those insights Sad

I am glad to be able to speak freely without being railed on or rejected lol , Love ya sis !! Rose

14 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm

cross-eyed

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And the "scales" fell . . .FELL . . .Rosered that was a WONDERFUL little bomb you just dropped there! It was the leviathan that blinded the hearts of men and still does to this day. For three days . . .Paul walked the path to resurrection where the scales FELL . . .just as Jesus relayed about seeing satan FALL from heaven . . .the flesh that returns to the earth from which it came . . .it falls away from the true nature of who we are. When the scales fell, Paul could finally "see".

Man . . .that'll preach all day long!!! I love that!! Thank you for sharing this out.

15 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Rosered


Wow ! Nate , thank you for furthering my understanding of it !!
yes it was 3 days until resurrection and it was the scales of pride and the air or Spirit could not move because of the scales formed to tightly together ! for me you gave it more depth
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

can always see more when looking closer and again , God is so good that way , Glory to Him always

16 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:29 pm

todosan


J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D. wrote:
todosan wrote:Hey John, good to see you here... Very cool.. this is Todd. Todo is Japanese for sea lion... it is a very long story...and I don't know if those here will appreciate it...

I don't want to highjack Jugg's thread, so I am going to start a new one. Something very powerful afoot.

Hey Todd ..... I want... in fact I "need" to hear the story ... what you say is a long story about the sea lion ... it is what we .. or others may see as a small thing can have the most impact in someone's life

...Jugg

Sorry I just saw that you wrote this.

When I was working in Japan, they were making fun of my name. In Japanese business, there is an inner circle and an outer circle. Japanese culture is to first understand the agreement, without all the detail, and then agree to work together. THEN, once you agree, you can move forward with the detail work based on the partnership. In the west, it is oppostite, you work all the details first and make hte commitment last.

So, I needed to win this business, which meant I needed to get in the inner circle. I needed to get to a place were I was in debted to them and was going to do real business. There are ways you do this, but often it includes receiving a favor from them so you are in debt to them.

On the day this happened, they started to make fun of my name. In Japanese, you would pronouce all the letters, including the double ones. So instead of Todd, they would say Tod-d. This sounds out loud todo, which is the name for sea lion. I laughed with them, because I knew at that moment I have won the business. $70 million worth.

So, san means mister. todo-san means Mr. Sea Lion, who has a harem. They always asked me where my harem was. I played along, and frankly enjoyed the razzing. What it really meant was that I had been accepted into the inner circle and was now part of the group of people there. That night, I was invite to one of the senior leader's homes. That was a very big deal and speaks volumes from a spiritual perspective.

17 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:05 pm

cross-eyed

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I enjoyed that very much Todd . . .great story and I can only imagine how much greater it was for you to personally experience.

18 Re: Another ... outside the box on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:11 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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todosan wrote:
J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D. wrote:
todosan wrote:Hey John, good to see you here... Very cool.. this is Todd. Todo is Japanese for sea lion... it is a very long story...and I don't know if those here will appreciate it...

I don't want to highjack Jugg's thread, so I am going to start a new one. Something very powerful afoot.

Hey Todd ..... I want... in fact I "need" to hear the story ... what you say is a long story about the sea lion ... it is what we .. or others may see as a small thing can have the most impact in someone's life

...Jugg

Sorry I just saw that you wrote this.

When I was working in Japan, they were making fun of my name. In Japanese business, there is an inner circle and an outer circle. Japanese culture is to first understand the agreement, without all the detail, and then agree to work together. THEN, once you agree, you can move forward with the detail work based on the partnership. In the west, it is oppostite, you work all the details first and make hte commitment last.

So, I needed to win this business, which meant I needed to get in the inner circle. I needed to get to a place were I was in debted to them and was going to do real business. There are ways you do this, but often it includes receiving a favor from them so you are in debt to them.

On the day this happened, they started to make fun of my name. In Japanese, you would pronouce all the letters, including the double ones. So instead of Todd, they would say Tod-d. This sounds out loud todo, which is the name for sea lion. I laughed with them, because I knew at that moment I have won the business. $70 million worth.

So, san means mister. todo-san means Mr. Sea Lion, who has a harem. They always asked me where my harem was. I played along, and frankly enjoyed the razzing. What it really meant was that I had been accepted into the inner circle and was now part of the group of people there. That night, I was invite to one of the senior leader's homes. That was a very big deal and speaks volumes from a spiritual perspective.

That was cool .... what you said about the inner and outer circle, coming into agreement and then working out the details ....

Is that not the same with us? ... the soul and spirit (or heart and mind) first coming into agreement as one and then the details are filled in by the Holy Spirit working through both as one, giving birth to Christ in us, which is also the birthing of His revelation in us.

Thank you very much for the explanation, it is cherished and has been taken captive in obedience to Christ.

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

19 Re: Another ... outside the box on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:37 am

todosan


As I was typing, I realized there was a lot of symbols in that story I hadn't thought about.

The whole process gave me a deep appreciation for the Japanese people. I think the western mind borders on crazy now...

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