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Chapter 12

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1 Chapter 12 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:58 pm

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12 “At that time Michael, the archangel[a] who stands guard over your nation, will arise. Then there will be a time of anguish greater than any since nations first came into existence. But at that time every one of your people whose name is written in the book will be rescued. 2 Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

As we've drifted down this river of revelation through Daniel's experiences, we've found ourselves in serenity, and in white water rapids. In the shallows and in the deep. Some places we drifted straight through and others we've hovered over the wisdom that lies beneath. It's covered a broad spectrum of highs and lows of understanding, of flowability, of emotion even.

Like you, I have never heard anyone go through this book with a dimensional purpose in mind. Most all of the teachings I'd ever heard and done on it were from a flat-lander's perspective. It was one dimensional. It was all focusing on literal events, literal world leaders and literal destruction. None of it ever was aimed at revealing the nature of our souls from within.

For that reason, this chapter we're coming into is one of the most referenced because the language in it is so similar to that of the Revelation of Jesus given to John. My goal here is the same as all the other visions and chapters. But at the same time, I want to just skim on the surface now and again without getting too distracted by all the imagery.

This is one of those times . . the "times of anguish" that it speaks of, so many in the church believe that this is still an unfulfilled prophecy, but I don't agree. For me, the entire Old Testament and all the prophesies it contained was about ONE thing. And that is the relationship between God and his chosen nation, Israel.

I believe if we're going to take them literally, we need to also apply the literal interpretation TO THE PEOPLE TO WHOM IT WAS LITERALLY WRITTEN TO. And that, is the Jews. Not some generation over 2000 years removed. I believe the need for WRITTEN prophesy . . .for all the prophesies we see in Scripture, I believe the need for them came to an end the moment it was declared that God would no longer write his word upon stone, but instead, he was changing the process to writing his Word upon the hearts of men.

That's not a cliche, that's a promise that he acted on and fulfilled through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon all flesh. So this destruction and time of anguish that was to come, was something directed at Israel of Scripture, not the Israel we know of today. How can you tell? By the fact that you can read it in history exactly when Israel lost their identity of their direct favor in God because they embraced all the signs pointing to Jesus instead of embracing Jesus himself. And "that" happened in A.D. 70.

2 Re: Chapter 12 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:03 pm

cross-eyed

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12 “At that time Michael, the archangel who stands guard over your nation, will arise. Then there will be a time of anguish greater than any since nations first came into existence. But at that time every one of your people whose name is written in the book will be rescued. 2 Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

So to wrap up what I opened with, these things for me, are all pertaining to the events leading up to the destruction of Israel's identity, including, their temple worship, their animal sacrifices, their rituals, their religion as a whole. That was "the end of the world/age" that many prophesies were referring to. Not to the end of earth, but the end of their religious system. It was always intended to be a temporary system. It was the shadow, the substance of that shadow still lied ahead of them in the form of Jesus himself.

But they rejected the substance for the shadow and once Christ came, the shadow could no longer manifest. The shadow NEVER precedes the subject that's causing the shadow to form. The light is always ahead of time. God is light. His light was shining upon the Son, Jesus was the object. And BEHIND Jesus, was the shadow. Are you following this?

Before the cross, man was to follow the form of the shadow. When the cross manifested, the shadow stopped at the cross. It never advanced any further. We are the result of the cross, not the shadow. We live in the Grace, not in the law. The law was the shadow of the cross. The Grace is in the light of the resurrection. But religion still lives within the limitations of shadows.

What does that have to do with this opening passage? These things were happening "after" the cross to those who were still embracing the shadows of truth. We do the same thing when we live according to our understanding instead of being lead by our spirit, bypassing our logic and reason. We try to build according to the blueprint of the form, rather than live in the foundation built by the substance.

During the destruction of those cities, buildings, and rooms built by the carnality within us, there is STILL salvation to our identity in Christ. Our "being" isn't what's being destroyed. Only the characteristics that were built by our mindsets, and the mindsets of others who we've given ourselves over to. It isn't ever a pretty thing to go through, but it's a process of purification that we all still must go through. If there is any carnality in us, and as long we're in these bodies of flesh, there will be carnality in us, then we all go through these processes.

Here's one for you . . .carnality in and of itself is not a bad thing. Let that soak in a bit. For example . . .nakedness in and of itself is not a bad thing. But when our imagination is loosed, it can quickly result in a LOT of bad choices after that. It's not the carnality, it's the BLENDING of the carnality AND our nature. It's when we allow the spiritual dominion in us to be given to the carnality in us that brings about the destructive natures.

Nuts, I'm late getting back to work.

3 Re: Chapter 12 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:54 pm

cross-eyed

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Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace

This is another verse that messes so many people up because again, they're trying to take it literally. We just went through this same vision about how this plays out within us . .. this verse should be no different. Tradition uses this as proof that not all are saved.

Now, I have heard arguments pertaining to the word "everlasting" that were quite convincing at the time, but I couldn't repeat it now . . .I can't remember all of it. But they did a word study on this and found it's definition doesn't mean what we think it means. But i really don't want to get into the logistics at this point. My approach to Scripture is controversial enough to most as it is.

But for me, it's not discussing natural men anymore than any of the other passages are talking about a literal armegeddon happening in the "somewhere-out-there" future. It's discussing the man in me . . .like right now. In fact, I was just saying this very thing to a friend last night. Looking back in my past, I just can't understand how I didn't see these things before. How could I believe there's eternal torment? How could I not see the true nature of what Love is? It's because of the rulers of the land within me at that time would not permit it. Those rulers died. My old nature has died.

I have been resurrected into a new and living way. Those old natures experienced the same resurrection, and their message hasn't changed, but "I" have. Is this making any sense?

Oh, and the book . . .remember who the book in which the names are written is? It's not a "what" but a "who". In the beginning was the Word .. .the Word was with God, the Word was God. Jesus even stated that he is the volume of the book. Jesus is opening his heart and my name is found there.

3 Those who are wise will shine as bright as the sky, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever

Wisdom does not come from men. It only comes from the Father. The wisdom in men shines like the stars . . .it illuminates the darkness within us. The messages of wisdom within us, reveals to us that we "are" made righteous, in spite of our selves. I love that one!!

But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”

This is one of the platforms I've come to quite often when trying to explain to people that these prophecies have already happened in the natural sense. This one is sealed up until the time of the end. Remember what the end is about? Not the end of human-life on earth, but the end of the religious system, the end of the Shadow is at the subject. And that is Christ. The cross. The resurrection.

But Daniel was told to seal it . . .Jesus broke that seal when he referred to this vision during his ministry. About 500 years. And when John was given his revelation of Jesus, He was specifically told to leave it open because the prophecies in it had already begun.

Some claim John was 90 when he wrote Revelation, and they say it was after A.D. 70. So the events of A.D. 70 couldn't be connected with all the destruction mentioned in Revelation. Now, I wouldn't argue that John was old, I can't say he was 90 when he wrote it. But if you do the math . . .he was six months older than Jesus . .. Jesus was 33 when he dies at A.D. 33-ish, A.D. 70 was close to 40 years later . . .that puts John at over 70 himself so for me, it all still fits the timeline. But I'm quirky like that.

The point is, Daniel was told to seal it up, John was told to leave his open, yet the language is virtually the same in both. Indicating the events unfolding took place toward the end of John's life.

4 Re: Chapter 12 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:31 pm

cross-eyed

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4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.

Sometimes it just hits me like a sledge hammer when thinking about how much we base our beliefs on the versions and translations our Bibles contain. I used to take the latter part of this verse to mean there will be an explosion of general knowledge . . .which then would match right up with the 20th century with all of the great inventions of men. Electricity, cars, industry, and now technology and social networking. Then I read the same verse in another translation and look at how it changes everything.

Message Translation
4 “‘This is a confidential report, Daniel, for your eyes and ears only. Keep it secret. Put the book under lock and key until the end. In the interim there is going to be a lot of frantic running around, trying to figure out what’s going on.

Crazy, isn't it? I've already hit on the "seal the book" issue so I won't go into that here. And for the men running around trying to figure out what's going on . . .for me, this is pointing to the state of Israel when Jesus came in the flesh. There were already very definitive sects of religion just within Israel itself, not to mention all the religions in the outlying nations around her. The time of the end, in the literal sense, again is speaking of the end of the religious system . . .which happened when Jesus came.

Inwardly, keeping in mind, we are all epistles. We have many chapters (phases) in our lives with beginnings and endings. The "man" in us has a beginning and an ending. There is a time in every person's life where they find themselves in search of something to fill the emptiness within them but they don't know what that is. The truth is, it's actually the latter chapter of the carnal man's life in them. Carnality is not eternal. It's already been defeated through Christ in the spirit and what happens in the spirit manifests in the earth.

What keeps our flesh alive within us is . . .us. We feed it. That's what the serpent in the garden was all about . . .dust shall be your meat . . . it feeds on our earthiness. But as every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, so the carnal man in us will die. In the end of our "self" we will be driven to search for understanding. "That's" what that verse says to me.

5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.


As I indicated earlier, this river comes into play again. It's as if the river is God's domain. He dwells in it, he speaks from it, he flows through it. Remember the river in Revelation that John saw? I believe God led both Daniel and John to the same place in this river.

There are two messengers on either side of the river . . two trees . . . and then another hovering over the river itself. Hmmm . . .think this may be more about symbolization than liberalization?

Revelation 22 1-5
Then the Angel showed me Water-of-Life River, crystal bright. It flowed from the Throne of God and the Lamb, right down the middle of the street. The Tree of Life was planted on each side of the River, producing twelve kinds of fruit, a ripe fruit each month. The leaves of the Tree are for healing the nations. Never again will anything be cursed. The Throne of God and of the Lamb is at the center.

It's enough to give me goose bumps to see this. But know that this river is not "out there" on the other side of what we can see . . .this is in the kingdom of God and the Kingdom does not come by observation without, but it "is" revealed to be "within". The healing in it's leave to heal the nations . . .what nations? The nations IN US . . .the adverse thoughts, the misconstrued beliefs we used to take part in. The cities with walls in us. The very things that literally affect our physical health. Healing has come to our land once we embrace this river within our "selves". It's been there all along, but the veil of our minds keeps us from wading out into the waters.

“How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.[


In the literal, there's that "three and a half years" again. Time, times and half a time. The same length that Jesus' ministry lasted before he brought ALL THINGS under his authority. The power of the holy people. This is not saying the HOLY POWER of the people. This is saying the RELIGIOUS power of the HOLY people. The people God set apart for his love to lavish on them his nature. But religion put a barrier there that kept them from realizing him so . . .he removed the barrier by bringing the entire religious system down to rubble.

5 Re: Chapter 12 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:57 am

cross-eyed

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8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand


God gave Daniel the vision but not the application. Would Daniel have comprehended it even if God had told him that it would be when the Messiah came? Perhaps. But again, God was writing his epistle in the earth, he was planting the seed which would come into fruition in the form of Jesus.

Another interesting observation is the fact that all through this chapter, there's a pattern that emerges. God says in the last days, people will run around trying to figure out what's going on . . .then in the vision, the angels ask if it could be explained how much longer these things would go on and then Daniel asks for the meaning of these things going on.

What's happening? How long will it continue to happen? What do the events happening mean? God reveals to Daniel the end of the religious system, But Daniel can't identify with it. How often do we hear a Word from God but our minds have no understanding to it's meaning. So what do we do? My personal motto to myself is, if God sent the message, he'll also reveal it's meaning. So I sit on it until that happens.

Verse 9 also helps me understand verse 2. The dead being resurrected to eternal shame . . .here in verse 9, resurrection comes to the wicked (dead) but they'll remain wicked because of their hard hearts, due to the veil (mind) in place between the holy place and the holy of holies within them.

11 “From the time that the daily worship is banished from the Temple and the obscene desecration is set up in its place, there will be 1,290 days.
12 “Blessed are those who patiently make it through the 1,335 days.
13 “And you? Go about your business without fretting or worrying. Relax. When it’s all over, you will be on your feet to receive your reward.”


1,290 days . . .another 3 1/2 years. For me, that is referring to the second half of the last week of the 70 weeks decreed to be set aside for the Jews. As to the 1,335 days, I honestly don't know. The sum comes to 12, and 12 is the number of God's government. The 70th week was a time of transitioning from the Old covenant to the New. The government of God in men was in transition.

It's a message of enduring to the end. Waiting upon the Lord is key. No one enjoys the fiery furnace experience, but regardless, we need to remain for the duration so the chaff is completely addressed without our interference of what God is doing in our lives. All through this, the message has been one of a combination of destruction and protection. The carnal man in us comes to an end, but the spirit man in us endures. That's a message that begins in Genesis and continues all through the entire life-span of this realms existence. Carnality is purged, spirituality reigns. Walk in the spirit.

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