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1 The Matrix on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:09 am

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Putting this out there as food for thought. I believe Todd warned you all that not everything that procedeth from my keyboard is "gospel." I still have a lot of questions regarding my own salvation and have been known to appear in the guise of a sacred-cow-slayer on occasion while exploring those questions.

Someone mentioned the "matrix" the other day. I wish I could find the quote. It was clever, and seems to describe where I am finding myself in all of this. I'm going to throw some thoughts out there for y'all and figure that this is a real good place to risk it. I doubt I'll get flamed for this much at all!

While doing some research this afternoon I came across this short piece. I have been noticing how the scientists and new-agers both are coming to realize that it is the spirit/energy realm that is most significant, and that the flesh/matter realm is illusory at best: that it doesn't really matter at all! Now why would this knowledge come to the 'heathen' and yet seem to elude us good church-going folk? God has purposed that all should come to know Him, and that the distinction between His sheep and the goats would not fall along the lines of whether or not He had revealed Himself to us, but rather if we chose to acknowledge Him as our Creator.

Rom 1:20-21 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (21) because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So might He have revealed Himself--or aspects of Himself--to those who do not call themselves Christian? Might the native americans know Him? The new agers? Observant physicists? How about the Mayans? I have always discounted their prophecies because of their taste for human sacrifice. Interestingly, during the time that they ascribe to the presence of their creator-god Q'uq'umatz (equivalent to the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl), human sacrifice did not occur. This was a later development, a ‘tradition of men’ as it were. The Mayans may have been onto something when they ended their temporal calendar this year. Maybe something profound will change here. And do you remember the popular song that went “this is the dawning of the age of aquarius”? Well, I checked it out in my astronomy program and discovered that the sun does indeed begin to rise in the sign of aquarius at this time, the same time all of these various faiths are claiming either destruction, redemption or simply transformation. Will it all go down on December 21, 2012? I have no idea, but I doubt it. Feast of Trumpets sound more like, but who knows? The Father, He knows, but it’s not given for us, the body of Christ, to know the date, only the season.

Let’s go back to exploring the possibility that we christians are no better than our neighboring tribes. . .

We are taught that all authority rests in Jesus' name, and that it is only through Jesus that we can reach the Father. Call on the name of Jesus, the Son of God. Or was that Yeshua, the Son of YHWH? Regardless, as we have come to define the word ‘name’ (meaning a handle or moniker), what we call Him is not so important. But back in the day, the name (greek: onoma) one was called indicated their character, their nature, their authority. A name was a much weightier matter than it is today. Thus, many of our favorite verses by which we christians claim superiority over other cultures might read a little differently:

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing you may have life in His {character, nature and authority}.


Might not an aboriginal people be able to find Wisdom from their own oral traditions, lessons from nature, and examples set by the elders in their tribe? You do remember Who Wisdom is, right? She is Jesus! She existed before the foundations of the earth, certainly before anyone was ever born with the name Yeshua. Do you see where I’m trying to take you with this? What if this ‘right of exclusivity’ that I’ve been taught and held onto until very recently is all wrong? What if I’ve been proving that satan is my father every time I’ve insisted that one needs must call upon the name of ‘Jesus’ in order to be saved? And all because I was pinning everything upon my flawed understanding of the meaning of the word “name”?

I have a new friend. He is a devout Muslim from Morocco. I enjoy sharing my faith with him. He in turn shares his faith with me and we find that we agree. A few days ago we had a chance to visit for a few hours and it was an eye-opener for me. It turns out that I have been lied to about Muslim tradition (why should that surprise me?). Our sharing has been rich in revealing that we are both seeing the same God, with different aspects being shared with our different cultures and how those traditions do dovetail together when the cultures meet in honest love. This new-found knowledge is certainly consistent with everything else the Lord has been sharing with me in recent years. My friend just found an english Quran for me, and I am going to read it for myself when he gives it to me tomorrow. To blazes with all I have been told about Allah being a moon god and what I have seen in the legalistic practices of the religious muslims. I am not seeing those things in my friend who I have come to know in these past months. Indeed, what if I were to judge the Bible based upon what I have observed in professing christians? I might become a book burner if that were the case.

Muslims might be right on, then. I will leave it up to the Lord whether or not He has given them grace sufficient for their salvation. And what about those Chinese? I just came across this teaching last week and I have to tell you, it is an eye-opener! They have been worshipping the God Most High for at least 2500 years before Christ! The entire creation story is even written in the characters they use to draw out their words. Did you know that confucianism, taoism and buddhism all had their beginnings in the years 5 and 6 BC? I had no idea! What year was Jesus born again? Somewhere around 2 BC? So, three or four years before His birth was when the new religions in China began to spring up. hmmmm..... Lord, please help me to understand this timing.

So there we have it. I might not be a christian after all. Can you still love me if we discover that I AM not?



Last edited by DavidHarreld on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mis-typed a date (only by 100 years))

2 Re: The Matrix on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:38 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Dear David,

Yes, I can, I recently was banned for standing up for Muslims. I'm a simple person, I'm not technical or wise on my own by any means, and what I have, and who I am, is because of Him.
If I was raised in any other place, then I would probably call Him something else too.
But for me, there is only ONE God, who am I that I could judge another man's faith.
I also have a good friend in Christ, who has taught me much, about bringing down those barriers that we have been taught all our lives. The way I look at it today, is that when Christ died on that Cross, All men, nationality, religion, etc. died with Him. And when He rose again, He changed the heart of every man, whether we see it or not, whether we believe it or not, whether we agree with another or not. Nothing can change the work of The Cross, the difference that it makes is in me, and the way I perceive it to be.
If I can't see a person in Christ, then I've not seen them the way The Father see's them. We are to see no man after the flesh, even though we once knew Him after the flesh, we are to see Him that way NO MORE.

But if Paul became all things to all men that he may win a few, how much more our God?
Just saying. Smile

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

3 The 'name of Jesus' on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:06 am

klm4jc


Greetings all,

Well, I'm jumping in and needed to post something to make sure I know what I am doing so I just thought I would comment on the whole 'no other name by which men may be saved' biz. I agree with David in that the 'name' meant more than just something to call someone. It meant the character and the nature of the individual. When I speak of my father those who only know him as that have a mental image of who he is based on that relationship with me. However, if I say it to my brother, he has an image of the man and the 40+ years that we have known him. His name takes on a deeper meaning to us for it captures or presents to us his character, who he is, what he is like.

When I hear the verse that says there is no other name by which men may be saved, it makes sense to me if we understand man is broken and fallen. Our nature apart from God is lacking at best. It is in bondage to self, the world, the flesh, the devil; however you want to state it. It is in need of deliverance (salvation). I know that in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing. So along comes this other way of being that presents itself in stark contrast to the way that I was being. This way of being is the way of Christ, the way of the Master. It's the ancient highway or the road less traveled. It's God's way of being as opposed to our way of being having eaten of the tree. He is called the Way for a reason. There is no other way to be in the end of all things except the way in which He is. All things were made by Him, through Him and for HIm. We are being transformed into His way of being.

There is no other way to escape the corruption that is in the world except by yielding to the manifestation of His nature within us. We are to be partakers of the divine nature of God. It is only in this way that we are delivered from the fallen path that we find ourselves on. So in that sense, it's not that someone needs to say the name of Jesus to be saved (delivered), they need to yield to the nature of Christ to be delivered. We all know that sermon on the mount, that is a glimpse of the nature of Christ. We are surrounded by songs of deliverance. This I believe is our ascension as we move from the 'lower path' to the 'higher path' as was pointed out in other posts. The day will come when we are perpetually (and eternally) delivered as we rise to meet him in this heavenly realm. Our deliverance requires us to acknowledge the truth of our need for deliverance, faith in the completed work of the cross, and acceptance in faith of our right standing with God. As we 'wake up unto righteousness' we 'sin no more'. The span of time between our waking moments will continue to get shorter and shorter. It will indeed be a great awakening, but with a great awakening there is no doubt an equal level of sleep that has fallen on the spirit of man.

So anyway, can this 'way of being' happen in someone that doesn't know the name of Jesus? Of course it can. I know many people that manifest the nature of Christ (much better than I at times) but I wouldn't consider them 'born again christians' as the religious system has dictated it to us. I am certain we all do. But alas, I am so quick to judge.....I think I need deliverance. Laughing

ps. thanks for having me on the formum, it's good church.

4 Re: The Matrix on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:17 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Very well put Klm4jc.

Images can be a very powerful thing, to some it can be their undoing.
But I agree that the Image of God is Christ, and that is the Nature,Character, and Authority of God.

So Glad you joined us.
Blessings

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

5 Re: The Matrix on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:20 pm

cross-eyed

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There's also the other glaring issue pertaining to the wisemen that brought the gifts to Jesus, they followed "the star" which has been said to be a unique alignment of planets. They say the star that rested over the manger was actually Jupiter, or something to that effect.

The other piece to that is, the wisemen were astronomers. If finding patterns in the stars is so tabboo, how is it the stars were actually what led these guys to Jesus then?

6 Re: The Matrix on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:12 am

Hibbs


Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God....To the pure, all things are pure.

It is amazing how knowledge puffeth up and that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the place of the fall. We live in an environment full of toxins and one of the more important aspects of health is to detoxify...and that is equally true for our spiritual health. Jesus told us that there are some that show the law of God written on their hearts and that He looks at the heart. In truly learning we actually unlearn and explode our misconceptions and traditions. We are constantly confronted with matrix paradigms and time/space constructs that are hopefully taking us from the finite mind of man and into the infinite realm of a God who knew the end from the beginning and said that it was "very good." He tells us that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world and we learn that Jesus was that Lamb....or, was He the Lion? Did Adam "make a mistake"? or was it his destiny to name the animals, demonstrate the power of God and fall, taking all of the DNA of humanity with him? In spite of the mess that the world is in today, is God truly sovereign and did He envision all of these things before He ever started? Are we participating in a contest that was rigged from the start and the outcome established and predetermined? Is every knee going to bow and every tongue confess? Is God's Agape Love so much greater than we have understood with our carnal minds.. that He envisions a day when love will rule and not self or greed? Is it really possible for His love to fail? Where sin abounds, does grace really abound the more? Is it in losing our lives that we find them,,,in dying we live? In losing our mind we find the mind of Christ? Do we really understand the name of Christ or is it Jesus surname? Is the anointing something that we can possess or is it the sweet aroma associated with the death and burial of Adam?
If we say that we know anything...do we really know anything...or is real knowledge hidden in Him who knows all things? Is the reality of our sense realm what is absolute reality or is absolute reality only found in the very nature and life of Christ? Can it be? Is it possible? Is it something exceedingly, abundantly, beyond all that I can ask or imagine? Did He really mean what He said? Can we really become sons of God? If these things be so, why not here, why not now?

7 Re: The Matrix on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:37 am

klm4jc


Mr Hibbs (not sure of anyone's name at the moment),

Love the line of questioning. What do we really know? All I can give testimony to is the experience I have in life enlightened by the word of God and the Spirit in me giving witness to that. Some days I really feel like Paul when he comes to the conclusion that it isn't wise to even judge himself. Who am I to judge anything. Once we really start to see the malady of our condition, and the depths to which we have fallen, we begin to recognize the true grace, gift, magnificence and all encompassing power of the God we serve. Who are we that God is mindful of us? Blows your mind.

My mind follows the same line of questioning that you pose. Was Adam suppose to fall? Sometimes I think so. God is working out His plan and if He indeed is sovereign, then it is all working according to His plan. It wasn't some mistake with Jesus in His back pocket just in case. There is purpose behind it, there is creative process involved in it. I have a hard time with the religious doctrine that says redemption is just taking us back to where Adam was. Perhaps we are going to where Adam was destined to be but had to go through this process to get there. Is God doing something in Christ that he did not do in Adam? Are we being brought to an eternal place of the dwelling of the Holy Spirit (tabernacles) within man that will prevent Him from ever falling again? Could this be accomplished without the sacrifice of Christ and our willful admission to the necessity of His sacrifice in order that he might have preeminence?

Kevin

8 Re: The Matrix on Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:41 pm

Hibbs


Mark works...Hibbs will do...Mr. Hibbs was my former status.

Romans 8:20 is a verse that we never hear preached and we never ponder the totality of God and how much bigger and beyond us are His ways. If we consider how "self-centered" humanity is and realize that God has purposed that we would be "Christ-centered", we can begin to realize His purpose for this season on earth. Mankind began by looking into the heavens and concluded that the earth was the center and that the sun revolved around it...much the same as a two year old believing that they are the center of attention and that their comfort is paramount. We think that we are the authors of our own destiny and that our will power and choices are the main factors in determining the outcome of our lives (and clearly they are factors) but do we ever determine the options...or does God? Does He work all things according to the counsel of His will or does He wait for us to "decree a matter"?

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, what was the crux of the temptations? Was it to perform at the request of the devil or to satisfy His hunger? Or, rather, was it not to demonstrate that He was the son of God and perform the word spoken over Him at the Jordan..."This is my beloved son"? Aren't all of the temptations in the garden the same thing? Don't we want to be god over our own lives and even sometimes lord it over others? 2 Thes 2:3&4 are interesting verses that tradition tells us relate to the "antichrist" sitting in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. If, however, we understand that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, the question is who is on the throne of our temple. Until the son of perdition has been revealed and exposed for who he is and what he pawns himself off as being (i.e. an angel of light) {angel meaning messenger rather than some mystical being}; we never understand the cross or its purpose. We like to look to the substitutionary atonement of Jesus never realizing that the cross is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe. Jesus laid aside his divinity and did nothing out of his nature as God. He then laid aside his humanity and demonstrated the divinity of God through a life surrendered to the will of His Father. He refused the temptation to do anything as the son of God choosing rather to live as the son of man.

Who is trying to be "like Him" and continually falling short? Don't we all have to pass through the wilderness of sin and burn our sacrifices until we realize that the blood of bulls and goats can never solve the problem? The son of perdition wants to show himself that he is god...talk about a deceitful heart....and yet....hasn't he ruled on our own throne...or at least thought that he did? Jesus was not only the solution to the problem but He was the forerunner through the veil. In following Him to the tree, Adam's curse is broken and our shackels lifted. As our eyes open to Him we find that He is the center of our universe, that our life has been hidden in Him who is life itself and that pride and self-esteem, rather than being virtues, are actually serious character defects. (Think about the few, the proud, the marines...you'd think that pride is something to be sought after.)

What do we possess that has not come from the providence of God in some manner or other? Did we determine the country of our birth, the color of our skin, our level of intelligence, the parents to whom we were born? Can we boast of our salvation? or are all of these things products of the love of our heavenly Father?

When we begin to see Him as He is...and not far off, we begin to become conformed to that that we see and gaze upon. What kind of world might this be if we were all centered in Christ...the Christos or anointed of God? It was His willingness to die that we might live that motivated His sacrifice. If that same mind is in us, then our lives stop revolving around ourselves and our family, business, money, health, ministry, home, rights or even country. As pilgrims we use this world lightly and improve it by our presence. We are considerate of others because we are no longer self-centered but rather the servant of all. Isn't that the very answer to the prayer that Jesus taught us to pray..."thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? Did he teach us to pray to go to heaven or rather for heaven and the kingdom to come to earth?

Let me leave on this question: Would we ever come to the knowledge of good and evil so as to be like God if we had not found them in our own heart and isn't that the purpose that God had when he put Adam in a garden with a serpent?...Just a thought.

9 Re: The Matrix on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:24 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
Hibbs wrote:Mark works...Hibbs will do...Mr. Hibbs was my former status.

Romans 8:20 is a verse that we never hear preached and we never ponder the totality of God and how much bigger and beyond us are His ways. If we consider how "self-centered" humanity is and realize that God has purposed that we would be "Christ-centered", we can begin to realize His purpose for this season on earth. Mankind began by looking into the heavens and concluded that the earth was the center and that the sun revolved around it...much the same as a two year old believing that they are the center of attention and that their comfort is paramount. We think that we are the authors of our own destiny and that our will power and choices are the main factors in determining the outcome of our lives (and clearly they are factors) but do we ever determine the options...or does God? Does He work all things according to the counsel of His will or does He wait for us to "decree a matter"?

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, what was the crux of the temptations? Was it to perform at the request of the devil or to satisfy His hunger? Or, rather, was it not to demonstrate that He was the son of God and perform the word spoken over Him at the Jordan..."This is my beloved son"? Aren't all of the temptations in the garden the same thing? Don't we want to be god over our own lives and even sometimes lord it over others? 2 Thes 2:3&4 are interesting verses that tradition tells us relate to the "antichrist" sitting in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. If, however, we understand that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, the question is who is on the throne of our temple. Until the son of perdition has been revealed and exposed for who he is and what he pawns himself off as being (i.e. an angel of light) {angel meaning messenger rather than some mystical being}; we never understand the cross or its purpose. We like to look to the substitutionary atonement of Jesus never realizing that the cross is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe. Jesus laid aside his divinity and did nothing out of his nature as God. He then laid aside his humanity and demonstrated the divinity of God through a life surrendered to the will of His Father. He refused the temptation to do anything as the son of God choosing rather to live as the son of man.

Who is trying to be "like Him" and continually falling short? Don't we all have to pass through the wilderness of sin and burn our sacrifices until we realize that the blood of bulls and goats can never solve the problem? The son of perdition wants to show himself that he is god...talk about a deceitful heart....and yet....hasn't he ruled on our own throne...or at least thought that he did? Jesus was not only the solution to the problem but He was the forerunner through the veil. In following Him to the tree, Adam's curse is broken and our shackels lifted. As our eyes open to Him we find that He is the center of our universe, that our life has been hidden in Him who is life itself and that pride and self-esteem, rather than being virtues, are actually serious character defects. (Think about the few, the proud, the marines...you'd think that pride is something to be sought after.)

What do we possess that has not come from the providence of God in some manner or other? Did we determine the country of our birth, the color of our skin, our level of intelligence, the parents to whom we were born? Can we boast of our salvation? or are all of these things products of the love of our heavenly Father?

When we begin to see Him as He is...and not far off, we begin to become conformed to that that we see and gaze upon. What kind of world might this be if we were all centered in Christ...the Christos or anointed of God? It was His willingness to die that we might live that motivated His sacrifice. If that same mind is in us, then our lives stop revolving around ourselves and our family, business, money, health, ministry, home, rights or even country. As pilgrims we use this world lightly and improve it by our presence. We are considerate of others because we are no longer self-centered but rather the servant of all. Isn't that the very answer to the prayer that Jesus taught us to pray..."thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? Did he teach us to pray to go to heaven or rather for heaven and the kingdom to come to earth?

Let me leave on this question: Would we ever come to the knowledge of good and evil so as to be like God if we had not found them in our own heart and isn't that the purpose that God had when he put Adam in a garden with a serpent?...Just a thought.

How many times in a day can we say WOW, or Amazing, well here goes another one, Wow, that was Amazing.

Right on the Mark, Mark, Very Happy

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

10 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:43 am

todosan


Mark wote :

Who is trying to be "like Him" and continually falling short? Don't we all have to pass through the wilderness of sin and burn our sacrifices until we realize that the blood of bulls and goats can never solve the problem? The son of perdition wants to show himself that he is god...talk about a deceitful heart....and yet....hasn't he ruled on our own throne...or at least thought that he did?

__________

This is a pretty powerful statement. I have this strange thought from time to time. All the different people in the world excerecize a myriad of paths. Do all paths really lead to Jesus? Not in the religion sense, but in the life sense they do. Eventually, circumstances of life bring us to Jesus. The paths to the left hand lead to repentance and the paths to the right lead to blessing. As much as our paths differ from one another, there is a mandatory requirement that we fulfill the feasts. To go into the tabernacle in any other way than the gate is the same as a thief and a robber.

When I stood in Passover, I thought I knew the Lord well. Now that I seek to leave Pentecost and go into Tabernacles I realize that I know the Lord not. Probably what happened to Paul on the same path when he realized he was the greatest of sinners late in his ministry.

11 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:29 am

Hibbs


So often we forget that there are still giants in the land of promise. Goliath with his six fingers and six toes still lurks and mocks. Adam (Goliath's other name) still complains that he lacks and lusts for the things that he lacks. Friends and family want to show us how foolish we are to think that we can really live by faith in a faithless world. Bills call, voices bombard and we try to maintain some measure of control over it all.

To counter these forces, we have the church and the priestly activities to somehow bring the ark into the battle and help us to overcome...and yet round and round the mountain we go. We heard Joshua and Caleb and their report but they were outvoted by the majority of investigators. It is a good land but we are not able to possess it. We will surely die.

There is a people who are not hurt by "the second death". They are those that have been beheaded for the testimony of Christ. What is this business of Alice's wonderland (another Matrix) where the queen continually decrees: "Off with their heads"? ...And yet, no heads actually roll. Was John really beheaded because of jealousy or was it because he was the transition man born under the old covenant (the greatest born of woman but he least in the kingdom is greater)? Do we notice when David takes a smooth stone, strike's Goliath in the head and slays him and then takes Goliath's own sword and slays him again that Goliath was twice dead?

Do we understand when Jesus states that: the son of man has no place to lay his head? Or that the government is upon his shoulders? Or that a body thou hast prepared for me? Or that we are the body of Christ? Do we begin to see that it is in losing our minds (off with our heads) that we gain the mind of Christ and that Goliath's own sword was used to take off his head? Do we appreciate that out of the mouth comes a sharp two edged sword and that our conversation must align with Paul who (while alive in the earth) stated that I have been crucified with Christ...I live, yet not I, for I have been crucified with Christ.

Tradition tells us that the second death is going to hell. Is it not rather the death of the carnal self...the soul of pentecost...the religious nature of the middle room. At each level there is another death required...and yet we live. Paul said that if there was no resurrection that we would be most miserable. There are many who will long for death and not be able to find it because they will not understand the need to love their enemy and embrace death to find life. He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life explained it simply for all who have ears to hear what the Spirit says. May we all know and believe the love that God has for us and the courage to embrace our cross daily in absolute trust that He who knows the end from the beginning is working all things together for our ultimate, eternal good. Having nothing left to lose, what then will we stand to gain? Love in Him.

12 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:19 pm

todosan


I do do what I don’t want to do, and I don’t do what I do want to do…cursed this wretched body of flesh.
Ta da!
I knew that if you got stirred up, that this kind of thing would happen.

I really appreciated the Alice in Wonderland reference. I literally chuckled out loud. Made me feel kind of giddy.

Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

The word soul here is “psuche”, which means mind or the breath of life. Now, if we go back to the scripturally correct movie “A Thief in the Night” (uh umm), we see that those so unfortunate to get saved after the rapture were left to their own devices to survive to onslaught of brown shirted neighbors who would sell you out for the price of fear.,. blah blah blah,… Then the very effective imagery, designed to get you saved through fear if it were possible, of them cutting off the heads of those who bravely proclaimed the name of Jesus and would not recant. I remember one older man joyfully displaying his new tattoo on his forehead.. Well at least he got o go have a good dinner before being condemned to hell forever.. but I digress.. just too fun to write this stuff..

I think it is amazing that the mind is in this verse associate with the breath of life. This theme is actually throughout the bible and does not appear here merely for the first time.

Mark 8:35
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.

Oh, now that puts it in the proper context, doesn’t it? Off with your heads!!!!

His life becomes our life. Hmmm… where does this first appear? Hmmmm.. the garden, that’s it!!

Genesis 2:9
And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The same tree we are admonished to eat from today. Are we not to eat the bread that come from Heaven on a daily basis? Is it not Christ in you the hope of glory? And so it is that nothing is new under the sun. And now we know how to lose your head….. Spiritually speaking. I would definitely advise against losing your head in a natural sense. You will be no good to anyone.

Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

I see this (not knowing what the book of Nathan says about it) as a revelation, or a revealing of something. In the dark hiddenness of today’s world, there are those saints who are secretly being prepared, eating the bread, drinking the wine, and growing to full stature…They are not in the public eye, but are very real. Some of them are reading this post….ha !

When the seal is opened, John “saw”. That which was hidden was now seen. There are three alters in the Tabernacle. They couldn’t be under the first one. It was for Passover and it was on fire. It couldn’t by the second one either. Kind of awkward. I guess the only one that fits is the third one, the very lid of the ark of the covenant. I guess that makes sense. There is a place to be under that alter, and it would be inside the Ark, who is Christ. Christ is always represented by an ark, even in Noah’s day.

Well, how did they get in there? They had to take on the mind of Christ… How else? Also, they were given a white robe. This is the linen garment of the high priest, only worn on the Day of Atonement to enter the Holy of Holies. I have looked for this verse. It is hard to find, but it is there. The ephod was not worn into the Holy of Holies, so this says to me that we are talking here about an inheritance. The righteousness of Christ is being imparted to those who have lost their heads. Obviously, they are in the rest of God, because they are supposed to rest a little while longer.

You could say that being killed in the same manner is like being crucified with Christ. I will leave you with this thought.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

13 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:49 pm

LindaY


Thanks Todd and everyone who posted here. I thought I understood this but, I didn't until now.

14 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:08 pm

todosan


Linda, you are a real blessing. You don't understand things unless the holy Spirit is moving in your life. That is the coolest thought I have had today. Glory!!!

15 Re: The Matrix on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:28 pm

LindaY


Thank you Todd for saying so and I feel the same way about everyone in here. I mean that more than all of you probably know.

16 Re: The Matrix on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:17 am

klm4jc


todosan wrote:
When I stood in Passover, I thought I knew the Lord well. Now that I seek to leave Pentecost and go into Tabernacles I realize that I know the Lord not. Probably what happened to Paul on the same path when he realized he was the greatest of sinners late in his ministry.

I love this. Since tabernacles is a 'deeper dimension' of the Lord, the only way we could ever understand it is to acknowledge the truth that we don't understand it. How else does one grow except he/she acknowledges a lack of understanding? If I think I already understand math because I had an algebra class in high school, I will never have the desire to seek to understand it more. I must acknowledge that what I learned then was only foundational and I really don't know math. I will then be on the path of discovery. So it is with God.

17 Re: The Matrix on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:09 am

Guest


Guest
If all paths lead to Him I am so thankful to be on His path. Especially that there will be nothing for me to boast of regarding the choices and turns I have made along the way. He gets to take credit for all, after all. It is so much more satisfying to be grateful than proud.

18 Re: The Matrix on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:30 am

Hibbs


While I agree that all paths inevitably lead to Him from whence we came, and that we are to give thanks in everything for this is the will of God, I am still of the impression that sitting on our blessed assurance will never accomplish that that we seek after. There are some 30, some 60 and some 100 and the parable of the talents suggests that a hunger for more of God is a prerequisite to reach a deeper level. Some want to stay along the shore instead of wading out with Ezekiel to the place where they are carried by the river and cannot control their situation...for them the mountain is an ever present problem as they go round and round waiting for a redeemer. For Joshua and Caleb they knew that they were well able to possess the land because their God fought for them. They knew God because they spent time with Him.

Tabernacles is also known as the Feast of Booths where the people would return to Jerusalem and build a booth without a roof (a prayer closet) and their focus would be up to the heavens. The walls of the City of God have more to do with keeping out the many Sanballats and Tobiahs that would undermine our purpose in our own hearts and betray our destiny. We are those that seek a city whose maker and builder is God. With an understanding that there is a place where we can rest from our own labors (not that we are not moving for after waiting upon the Lord, we mount up with wings as eagles...riding the winds of the spirit rather than flapping our wings) and milk and honey flow freely with grapes beyond compare, and that this place can be found in this aeon; we press for the mark of the high and holy calling of priests and kings after the order of Melchisedech. We look for prophetic signs because we are as the sons of Issachar, having understanding of the times. We know that He came in and to us, that He is presently coming to us whenever we turn our eyes from the cares and the riches of this Aeon, and we look for Him to come fully in and through His body, of which we hope and believe to be a part. In this world we are not of it for we have been changed, are being changed and will be perfected. Marching to the beat of a heavenly drum, we know that there is more than the wonders of pentecost and that we can experience an understanding beyond Babylon and the present condition of the church.

Hunger we must, thirst...oh how parched our throats at times, longing to be cloathed upon so that we are no longer "naked pilgrims" that the world cannot accept; we cry out with beloved John: "Come quickly"...even so, we know that there is something better that God has prepared for those upon whom the end of the age has come. What a glorious day this is!!!

19 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:00 am

Guest


Guest
It is today, is it not? And yet, I still anticipate a physical perfection and desire to 'harpazo' where and when He wills. Is there not so much more awaiting us?


Joh 14:12-14 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. (13) And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. (14) If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

20 The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:06 am

Hibbs


Amen. I am of the impression that it is again a strange phenomenon. Like the probe inserted into the base of the brain that can bring instant understanding of how to fly a helicopter...or that inserts us into another dimension, I believe that there will be a people who abide in Him to the point that they are changed into His very nature. Now we see in part but then we will see clearly. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, we shall all be changed. When Adam's eyes were opened to his nakedness, he fell. When ours realize that we have received a garment of righteousness, and a new nature, and are now ambassadors from a different kingdom, and we see Him as He (presently) is, we will be not only like Him but in Him as well.

Once Neo believed the report of who he was, everything changed. Now we deal with so many voices and so many reports that a certain level of confusion (Babylon) results. We live in a society programmed by lies and deception so that the "free press" and our beloved Constitution have been trampled beyond recognition. Society cries out so many competing demands and religion measures success so carnally, that all we like sheep go astray. Since it is a fight of faith, I believe that we realize more and more the Truth and that we are changed (metamorphosis) by the renewing of our minds. There is a "critical mass" if you will that will be reached (akin to Gideon's 300) that will be that barley loaf (a firstfruit company) that will tumble into the enemy camp with broken clay vessels, lamps lit with the light of the Holy Spirit and trumpets of truth in their mouths. We wait not so much for Him who said: "It is finished" as much as He waits for us to have the faith that He is looking to find in our earth. It is for this company of sons that all creation groans and waits to see.

Just a thought? Or maybe just the madness of a rampant imagination...God knows.

21 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:30 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
Oh no, I don't think this is rampant imagination at all. It "may appear" to be that to the natural mind, but there's so much you're saying here that has a clear-cut resonation of affirmation happening within us all. It feels like we're all totally excited even though we're not completely clear on what exactly we're being so excited over. There's a rising up within us that is trumpeting things we're sensing even though our natural eyes have not yet seen. You ever hear yourself say things that you've never heard before? I love those moments. Surprised

22 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Hibbs


The fact is that some of the things that I have written in the few days on this forum have surprised me when I have looked back. I know that there is a pull or drawing in the spirit that is causing us all to rise to a higher plane and I can't tell you all how much it blesses me to be a part.

Just observing and listening and then putting words on paper has added a perspective of some things that were not this clear before.

23 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Guest


Guest
Hibbs wrote:Now we deal with so many voices and so many reports that a certain level of confusion (Babylon) results.

Yes! This describes my day-to-day! I am on information overload, to the point where I can't even keep up with nine or ten wonderful conversations with my friends. I only hope that I am seeing what He wants me to see and voicing what He wants me to voice.

And yet, even with so many conflicting objectives pulling me in so many different directions, I still waste time. Lots of it. This is a shame to me. I can't even say, "This appears to me to be a waste of time, but perhaps I am about the work of my Father and simply don't understand the why and the how of it." No, we're talking waste, cut and dried. Wow, that does sound like an arrogant pronouncement, but I can't seem to get around it. It is as if even without drink or drugs I am still seeking comfort in the flesh even though it is elusive. What does draw a moth to the flame, anyway? Lord, come quickly! Whether I am qualified to rule and reign with you for this age, or whether I sleep awaiting your glorious judgement, I am wearing myself out here in babylon. And yet I hope that You have given me enough of Your heart and Your mind that You can entrust me to judge in You as You bring all of your enemies under Your feet, even if my flesh is not yet wholly subject to you!


cross-eyed wrote:/You ever hear yourself say things that you've never heard before? I love those moments. Surprised

Again, YES! I AM in awe of Him when He gives me the perfect saying to share His Love and encouragement to another. I have been seeing this more and more lately. I love how He can give me just the words to say to another that come clearly from Him and not from me. Yes, He uses the experiences that He has allowed me by way of authority to speak on a subject, but then carries the conversation into realms that I have never experienced.

Luk 12:11-12 "Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. (12) For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

I used to imagine this speaking to a time when we might be hauled before a court, or even a firing squad. But does it not apply to any place of a potential for teaching? Or any moment with a brother or sister who might be subject to principalities and powers who exalt themselves against the Most High God? I love when I can witness His working! It just flows. . .

24 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:54 pm

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
[quote="DavidHarreld"]
Hibbs wrote:Now we deal with so many voices and so many reports that a certain level of confusion (Babylon) results.

David said:
Yes! This describes my day-to-day! I am on information overload, to the point where I can't even keep up with nine or ten wonderful conversations with my friends. I only hope that I am seeing what He wants me to see and voicing what He wants me to voice.

And yet, even with so many conflicting objectives pulling me in so many different directions, I still waste time. Lots of it. This is a shame to me. I can't even say, "This appears to me to be a waste of time, but perhaps I am about the work of my Father and simply don't understand the why and the how of it." No, we're talking waste, cut and dried. Wow, that does sound like an arrogant pronouncement, but I can't seem to get around it. It is as if even without drink or drugs I am still seeking comfort in the flesh even though it is elusive. What does draw a moth to the flame, anyway? Lord, come quickly! Whether I am qualified to rule and reign with you for this age, or whether I sleep awaiting your glorious judgement, I am wearing myself out here in babylon. And yet I hope that You have given me enough of Your heart and Your mind that You can entrust me to judge in You as You bring all of your enemies under Your feet, even if my flesh is not yet wholly subject to you!


Hi David, no it doesn't sound arrogant at all, it's sounds honest, and I for one appreciate that so much. I too, with all I have to do and keep track of still find myself "wasting time" or at least Adam wants me to think that anyhow. Not only do I have to tend to me, but My Mother also, and her appointments and pills and bathing's and changing's etc. etc. on and on.
Not to mention bills, and running the household.

And I still find myself sitting here at the computer playing jigsaw puzzles "for me" personally, and feel the same way I'm wasting time. But I have come to understand that I need this as a caregiver or I would probably be batty. As I was before, I wore myself out, now I've learned to take time for me. It is detrimental to my well being. So I say the enemy is a liar.

We are exactly where we are suppose to be in Him.

God Bless you David
For you are a blessing to us.

http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

25 Re: The Matrix on Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:24 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
Well I can only speak for "me". And all I can tell you is . . . I get uneasy when you guys aren't talking. I don't want this experience to just be a flash in the pan and when the newness wears off, people start conversing less and less frequently. I need you and you need me in order for the house that God builds to be complete!! drunken

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