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Daniel 7

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1 Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:55 pm

cross-eyed

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Here we go . . . I have been trying to restart this for some time this week but I've been going through a lot of technical issues . . .I think I've finally figured out a way around it so now I can get started in this again.

In the first year of Belshazzar King of Babel, Daniel saw a dream, and there were visions in his head, upon his bed: [a]then he wrote the dream, and declared the sum of the matter.

I can't get past the 1st line. As I read this, a question popped up right away. The numbers game. In the natural, the reference to the first year of Belshazzar is a time-line. But in the spiritual, it's a sign post. The moment I saw it, I "had" to look at something else before going on . . .and look and what I found. "That" was in the first verse in chapter 7, yes? Check this out.

Chapter 8
1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar, a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, [a]after that which appeared unto me at the first

Chapter 9[b]
1 In the [b]first
year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans

Chapter 10
1 In the third year of Cyrus King of Persia, a thing was revealed unto Daniel (whose name was called Belteshazzar) and the word was true, but the time appointed was long, and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

What do you think the first verse in Chapter 11 is going to say? Wait for it . . . . .

Chapter 11
1 Also I, in the first year of Darius of the Medes, even I [a]stood to encourage and to strengthen him.

It ends there . . .chapter 12 is merely a continuance of the vision from chapter 11.

One and three, one and three, and one. I'm not seeing a total number here as much as I am seeing a combination of two. One is for sovereignty, three is for resurrection and this pendulum swinging back and forth between the two. Lets see if each of these visions doesn't have either sovereignty or resurrection as the back-drop of the message each vision contains.

Keep in mind, we're looking for Christ "in us" as we coast down the currents of this unusual river. Try not to get caught up in the signs and symbols in and of themselves. They are all pointing to something greater than what "they" are. That's what signs do. They direct you toward a goal, purpose, experience. We're not to worship the signs, just recognize them for what they are. Remember also we're switching gears now, laying logic and reason aside and just let the spirit reveal to us what lies beneath what can be seen.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon [b]the great sea:

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea one divers from another.

4 The first was as a [c]lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the earth, and set upon his feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given him.

5 And behold, another beast which was the second, was like a [d]bear, and stood upon the [e]one side: and he had three ribs in his [f]mouth between his teeth, [g]and they said thus unto him, Arise, and devour much flesh.

6 After this, I beheld, and lo, there was another like a [h]leopard, which had upon his back [i]four wings of a fowl: the beast had also four heads, and [j]dominion was given him.

7 After this, I saw in the visions by night, and behold, the [k]fourth beast was fearful and terrible and very strong. It had great [l]iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped [m]the residue under his feet: and it was unlike to the beasts that were before it: for it had [n]ten horns.


Okay, the number four, can't ignore that it's there. You have to ask yourself "why" four? Why not three . . .why not five? One thing I remember Randall Worley would say a lot was, Everything Jesus did was "on" purpose, "with" purpose. Nothing was left to coincidence. It's the same thing with all of Scripture. The number four is connected to things of the natural . . .earth/wind/fire/water . . .north/south/east/west . . .What this speaks to me is what we're about to see next is going to be something pertaining to the literal earth.

Now, again, addressing the literal aspects, Daniel was receiving basically a run-down of how the ranking powers of nations would fall into place. Most of these things unfolded before Jesus even came on to the scene. And they were still unfolding when Jesus "was" on the scene which is why Jesus referred to the writings of Daniel in Matthew 24. These were all things that were going to effect Israel in one sense or another. God was just having a conversation with his kids and Daniel was the mouthpiece through which God was talking.

out of time . . .nuts.

2 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:58 pm

cross-eyed

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2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea:
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea one divers from another.
4 The first was as a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the earth, and set upon his feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given him.
5 And behold, another beast which was the second, was like a [d]bear, and stood upon the one side: and he had three ribs in his mouth between his teeth, and they said thus unto him, Arise, and devour much flesh.
6 After this, I beheld, and lo, there was another like a [h]leopard, which had upon his back four wings of a fowl: the beast had also four heads, and [j]dominion was given him.

7 After this, I saw in the visions by night, and behold, the [k]fourth beast was fearful and terrible and very strong. It had great [l]iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped [m]the residue under his feet: and it was unlike to the beasts that were before it: for it had [n]ten horns.


As we read through these, is it any wonder that Daniel's life was a protected one? He is actually a representative of all of Israel. He was reading a passage written by another prophet of his day, Jeremiah who was also relaying God's plan for Israel and the nations that would affect her and in there, he realized that the time decreed by God for Israel to be in her bondage was coming to an end, and as he prayed for her release from her bondage, he prayed as a representative would pray. He included himself in with her defiance and rebellion against God even though he personally did neither.

So what God is revealing to him is leaders, events and outcomes of what was yet to come for Israel. If it wasn't for the spiritual message and the morals in the stories, these things would be irrelevant to our generation for the most part. But they become EXTREMELY relevant the moment we read them through the eyes of our hearts rather than our minds.

I also found this interesting in verse two it speaks about the four winds OF HEAVEN telling me this is happening in the spirit first . . .but it has such a similar ring to another passage depicting a preparation process for creation.

Genesis 1
2[i] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. [i]And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters[i].

It's like God is preparing the atmosphere as he begins to call out his plan and purpose into manifesting in the natural realm of this earth.

I love the flip side . . ."this" is the same thing happening within us! The spirit of heaven is moving upon the face of our waters . . .remember that word "waters" is connected to "semen", the seed of life being released into the atmosphere of darkness . . .LET THERE BE LIGHT . . .it's enough to give ya goose bumps.

3 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:59 pm

cross-eyed

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3 And four great beasts came up from the sea one divers from another.
4 The first was as a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the earth, and set upon his feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given him.
5 And behold, another beast which was the second, was like a [d]bear, and stood upon the one side: and he had three ribs in his mouth between his teeth, and they said thus unto him, Arise, and devour much flesh.


From the four great winds stirring the waters comes four great beasts. A lion with eagle's wings . . . didn't we just read about Nebuchadnezzar having hair as eagles wings?

Daniel 4:33
The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Of course! His hair grew like eagles feathers!! My hair is an extension of my mind . . .thoughts!! Eagles soar . . .the man lost his mind!! His hair growing like eagles feathers is a manifestation of the fact his mind was not earth bound like the rest of him, there was a detachment.

And now we see this lion with eagles wings but the wings are removed and what was a lion now turns into a man. Again, I'm not looking for the literal events, people or nations that fulfilled this, I'm looking for the message applicable "within" man. The lion is the KING of his domain, the eagles rely on wind currents to carry them via their wings. Remove the wings, the lion is no longer a king, but merely a man.

When we have our spiritual wings clipped, what do we become?


4 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:04 pm

Rosered


I love reading this Nathan !! lots of confirmation in things also concidered

Are we allowed to post here ?

If not will gladly erase this ..

I have alot of reading to do , but enjoying every minute of it .

Carry on Bro N , good stuff , love how you break it down , makes things so much more clear for me to understand and remember .

5 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Rosered


When we have our spiritual wings clipped, what do we become?

[quote] grounded or earthbound .

You know I can relate this , right now!

so much its not funny

6 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:42 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
You are so precious Rose, and yes we are allow to post.
Nathan loves the input from us all.
It's just sometimes I sit back in Awe of what I'm reading, like I've never seen it this way before, but when I hear what he's saying, I know that this is the way we are to see it.

If you start in the beginning of the book you'll find that we have all had our moments that things come to us and we will share. But mostly we're just letting him run with it. Smile

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

7 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:50 pm

Rosered


Thanks sista Scherryl !
I will start from the begining than lol ,

I love how the hairs are like thoughts , you cannot count the hairs on your head nor the thoughts they are numbered , the Lords though ! and we cannot make one hair on our heads black or white , pure/white or dark/black
Just some of the parables Jesus taught as well as Ezekiel having to split hairs / thoughts maybe ?
I am remebering alot of this like rays of Light coming back in or though Smile very happy right now , can you tell hee hee Razz



Last edited by Rosered on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

8 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:00 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
Believe me when I say this, I feel this way everyday because of this place and the people God has so Graciously led me to meet.

I have never felt more free to share whatever The Lord lays on my heart here. Because no one judges you here, we embrace who you are in HIM.

Love you, girl




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

9 Re: Daniel 7 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:04 pm

Rosered


Scherryl wrote:Believe me when I say this, I feel this way everyday because of this place and the people God has so Graciously led me to meet.

I have never felt more free to share whatever The Lord lays on my heart here. Because no one judges you here, we embrace who you are in HIM.

Love you, girl
Love you too sis and missed you terribly I love you
God is so good ! Great even

10 Re: Daniel 7 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:56 pm

cross-eyed

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Oh my by all means, SHARE what you see as you see it! My aim is not to establish a doctrine, it's to light a spark. When something ignites in you . . .let the rest of us feel the glow of your fire! And in many cases . . .we need to also experience the burning as well . . . got a lot of chaff that's been ingrained in us that God lights up without us even being aware it was there.

The more you guys have these conversations like this, the more relaxed I get in saying what I see. I know it's radical and it can even have nothing to do with the actual story, but at the same time, I also beleive that's the language God has chosen to use from the beginning. The things that confound the natural mind are a rich delicacy to the spirit within.

11 Re: Daniel 7 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:57 pm

cross-eyed

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4 The first was as a [c]lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the earth, and set upon his feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given him.
5 And behold, another beast which was the second, was like a [d]bear, and stood upon the [e]one side: and he had three ribs in his [f]mouth between his teeth, [g]and they said thus unto him, Arise, and devour much flesh.
6 After this, I beheld, and lo, there was another like a [h]leopard, which had upon his back [i]four wings of a fowl: the beast had also four heads, and [j]dominion was given him.
7 After this, I saw in the visions by night, and behold, the [k]fourth beast was fearful and terrible and very strong. It had great [l]iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped [m]the residue under his feet: and it was unlike to the beasts that were before it: for it had [n]ten horns.


I was going home from work last night and this thread was on my mind and I prayed inwardly to the Father about what on earth am I doing. Are these things I'm sharing legitimately applicable? This is ALL such an act of faith with me. I have no idea how any of this is going to come out, I don't know where it's going to go or how to even make sense of it all.

A bear with three ribs in it's mouth . . . what's the spiritual picture there? And several things came to me in answering the prayer. One is, it's not my purpose to explain "every" piece all the time in every verse. If I start doing that, my mind will assume it's NATURAL position in assuming responsibilities that it doesn't have in this arena. I read until I'm quickened to take a pause and wait. Which generally is never more than one verse . . .no speed reading when revelating.

The other thing that came to me, I believe is specifically relevant to this passage and that is the fact that the kingdom of heaven does not come by observation. It is within us. Yes?? yeah, we've heard that one more than once if we heard it at all. But what exactly are these visions pertaining to then? Literally. On a 1st dimension level of understanding, they are dealing with KINGDOMS on earth. Who comes in to power, who is taken down, the nature of those coming into power . . .so when you see the flip side and take it inwardly, it's not really as big of a jump as my mind thinks.

There is a kingdom within me, there is a sea, a murky depth, but when the spirit stirs the waters within me, it creates an atmosphere of birthing. That's how healing is released into others. We let the spirit within us stir up the waters . . .here it's called a sea, Jesus used a pool called Bethesda, Paul instructed Timothy to "stir up" the gifts within him . . .they come from the waters of the spirit that flows in, and through us.

These beasts . . .a lion, a bear, a leopard and an unidentifiable beast, they are all different natures of what moves within us. I would say the first three are connected to godly natures, the lion is the kingly nature, the bear is that which EATS FLESH . . .may be painful, but necessary to have our flesh removed, yes? Maybe we could call the bear "circumcision". And the leopard with wings . . .my favorite, the one that can fly, above the noise and into the sound . . .out of the earthiness and into the air currents . . .and the fact that they make up "three" all lead to resurrection. The last one is . . .for me . . .the same beast Revelation speaks of . . .and within us we all have it's mark . . .it is the mark of man.

12 Re: Daniel 7 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:56 pm

cross-eyed

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7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


The FOURTH beast . . .again, connected to the earth/earthiness/flesh/ the carnality of man. And this beast was nothing like the previous three . . .which affirms in me of what I shared before . . .the previous three were pertaining to godly characteristics within me whereas this last one is of the carnal nature. And, isn't it just like us to focus on the scariest one? This beast had TEN HORNS. . . Can you see where this is going?

Ten is the number of law . . .a horn signifies power. The three horns plucked up . . .for me? Father, Son, Holy Spirit . . .If you've seen Jesus, you've seen the Father as they are ONE. Where were they "plucked up"? Calvary. The eyes of man and a mouth that spoke great things. Would that not be describing Jesus in the flesh?

Because this scene was happening "within" the ten horns, I see this to represent religion. It was the religious leaders that had Jesus murdered. We have these same set-up within us every time we turn to religion rather than resurrection. We have the power of law in us, we have the power of resurrection. We are rooted within that vine of life. But the religious law in us DESIRES to uproot that resurrection nature. But the spirit of life in us will rule over it .. . so long as we give it permission to do so.

I love what's coming . . .but I don't have the time right now to get into it here.

13 Re: Daniel 7 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:58 pm

cross-eyed

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I just received a pm from one of you pertaining to this last beast. I'll let them remain anonymous here, if they want to come forward with a later post, they surely can do that. But I can see how what they've seen fits right in with what's already been written here.

------------------------------------------------
The word translated as "diverse" originally means alter, change. With that in mind, it was brought to my attention,

Rather than "diverse from one another" meaning four different beasts

I saw it as "changing from one to another" almost as if it it a progressive change, like the example of the serpent in the garden becoming the dragon of Revelation.


--------------------------------------------------

Remember the first vision Daniel had of the idol with a gold head, silver breast and arms, bronze waist and thighs and feet of iron and clay?? Remember what we shared about how it's a digression of quality in the metals?

Gold = lion
silver = bear eating flesh
bronze = leopard with wings, but loses them
iron/clay = unidentifiable beast.

Is it just me, or is there a pattern there? Shocked Within us, we are given a kingly nature (lion) but in our flesh, we allow our "self" to operate when it should be observing and it brings a deterioration to our kingly nature. In the end, we have our wings removed and we become what we behold, we became man in the flesh, rather than men of the Spirit. But don't get too upset . . .

See my first reflex is to "resist" this process. But I don't think that's why God is revealing this to us. I think he's revealing this to us because we are IN the process NOW. And he's not condemning us for it, he's bringing us the gospel . . .the good news. Remember what you have to do before you can experience resurrection? Yeah, you have to first experience death . . .that's all that's going on here. God is merely showing us how we got here and more importantly, he's already prepared a way to get us out.

I love what's coming . . . God is showing up in Daniel's dream!!

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


My, oh my, oh my . . .so much to play with, don't know where to even begin. At the beginning verse I suppose!!

Thrones were cast down:
What comes to your mind? To me, what Jesus said of another of Daniel's dreams referring to the abomination of desolation STANDING in the holy temple. WE are that temple . . .my body, your body . . .as individuals and as a corporate body. But for right now, "my" body is a temple and without Christ, there is an abomination of desolation that stands upon the throne within me. That's the old man, the carnal mind, the soulish side of who I am. It's defiled my kingly nature. But, like the original pattern in Genesis, the spirit hovered over the face of my deep, when darkness ruled my identity, and there was a cry in the heavens over me "Let there be light" and in that instant, the thrones came crumbling down.

Ancient of days did sit
Is it any wonder that Jesus could bring REST to the weary? Rest isn't an act, it's a person. It's an identity. It's an ascended place of that kingdom within us. God-is-Rest. That's why now it makes me just shake my head at those who claim God is love while at the same time believe that eternal torment will come to those that can't fathom or accept that love. It's the same with those that claim God is Rest but yet embrace alllll the religious activities engrained in them to the point where they just can't fathom the idea that you can actually have a flourishing relationship with the Father and NOT attend a church.

My ancient of Days . . .what a wonderful name that is.

whose garment was white as snow
Now, doesn't this sorta raise a question "Does God need clothes?" People just assume that this is a literal fact. God literally wears a white robe to cover himself up. Really? Is it chilly in heaven? I don't think it could be with all of this fire pouring out of the throne. Unless . . . like EVERYTHING ELSE in Scripture, it's trying to symbolize something OTHER than the obvious.

White symbolizes . . ya'll know this one . .purity. It's not that God's deeds reflect a pure heart . . .he is the source of purity. He "is" purity. The robe for me isn't a veil covering him so much as it is a visual manifestation of an anointing. It's not stationary, it's passed on, he releases this mantle, this covering into those whom he created after his own image. Thrones of carnality come down, God shows up . . .not really . . .really it's the other way around. It's only when God shows up, that we have the power to let him tear the thrones down.

hair of his head like the pure wool
I was always TAUGHT that someone with white hair was to be considered wise . . .like and elder. But I beg to differ just a bit. When you look at this inwardly, when it's only two players . . .soul and spirit . .. and the biggest battle we ever fight is the one inside us between these two .. .and our soul and our mind are interchangeable,it becomes eminently clear that what hair is what covers your "head" and your "head" (skeletal) is where your mind is seated, the hair is then an extension of your mind.

A woman's hair is her glory, covering it with a scarf is a sign of humility . . .she's covering up her individual glory. That's kind of what that's all about. But here, the white as wool . . .what is wool used for? Making garments. So . . .when the hair is white, the garment is white because the garment is the hair (wool) that's been trimmed and fabricated into a covering.

I think I just stepped into something rather deep here. I've never heard, nor seen this connection before. That can go a long way. There are different types of garments, yes? Linen doesn't come from wool. Know why a priest wasn't supposed to wear wool? It has to do with sweating . . .which is connected to labor . . .which . . .is what your mind does when it worries, reasons, and even imagines.

Scherryl is the only one that knows this, but I tried changing my whole profile on this forum because I was having such difficulties posting stuff. I thought it was my profile. Turns out it was my network provider. But I was going to have a new name "mindless1" I love that. The removing of the mind has been something that's been a MAJOR part of my message for many years now. That's why I say when we enter into the kingdom, our mind must go from operation in this realm, to observation in the Father's realm.

But when we see his hair white as wool . . .the labor has become purified because he IS Rest. . . .seated. White hair is a purified mind. A purified mind is one that is "in" Rest. Man . . .this is getting fun!! One more.

is throne was like the fiery flame
There are many illustrations God gives us about this fire. Here in Daniel, we've seen it already in the fiery furnace in how it burns the bonds of those in captivity and instead of death, they're set free in life. The lake of fire in Revelation is another form. This fire we see here, we're going to see something get thrown into it in a couple verses. But the key here is, When we experience God's fire, it's not destroying us, it's purging us, it's purifying us, it's setting us free. If I had the time, I'd look up the passage that talks about how many men build with sticks, straw, gold and even silver and all will be tested by the fire . .. . in the end THE BUILDERS ARE SAVED . . .another UR passage there for sure. But the fire purifies what is holy and it does away with everything that's not . . .in the end . . .WE are STILL standing.

Send the Fire . .. Oh Father . . .send the Fire.

14 Re: Daniel 7 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:56 am

cross-eyed

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10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened

A fiery stream here, a crystal river in Revelation. Both are God's essence, his anointing, his presence, his nature. In this case, it's still a river, it's just one of fire. A consuming fire. A fire that transforms. It can take "one" piece of wood in the natural and transform it into a gazillion flakes of ash.

The judgments set . . .I think that's why it's a river of fire and not crystal water. Here it's removing chaff, in Revelation it's bringing clarity. Both are coming from the same throne of God. The judgments set . . .the decision has already been made. And it's not what we think. But what is striking me is this last piece.

The books were opened. It brings me to pause and pose another question. Does God "really" need literal pen and paper in HEAVEN to record our every move? Or, could these books be something entirely different? There were books mentioned in Revelation as well. And I believe it's the same books.

Now, it "appears" to say they were "being" opened, but I see it to say that in God's presences, they just "are" opened. The power of his purity brings the books into a state of openness. But what are the books? For me, if you're asking what, your asking the wrong question. It "should" be WHO are the books.

Just as WE are the temple; in US there is a heavenly kingdom; WE are a city on a hill; WE ARE ALSO BOOKS. Paul says we're epistles. It's not that there's someone documenting every action we take, it's that once we enter into the presence of God, we BECOME opened. Oh, and remember what he says about where he writes his laws? Upon the what? "Hearts" of men. Can you see that "you" are one of the thousand upon thousands that minsters to God as you enter into his presence and as a book, you open yourself up to him as he reads and writes his nature in you? I'd like to also think I'm not just your average book . . .I'm a "hymn" book. I love to worship, sing, write, pound on a piano . .throw in a little harmonica . . .

But we are all also songs to each other as well. We all see things a little differently but we're all still "being" the same song. That's called "harmony". And there's nothing that sounds better than an anointed quartet! Musicians play multiple keys on one instrument that creates a "sound". A chord, a key, it's a combination of notes playing at the same time. It brings resonation, much like his voice within us.

I see these assumed "angels" as the purified souls of men who are opened books that one, are purified, two proclaim glory to the Father and three, manifest his nature because "he's" the one doing the writing.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


The great words which the horn spake . . . I know earlier I mentioned the great things being said referred to Jesus, and they still can imply that, but also . . . it's to imply more of a haughtiness, prideful things, boastings . . .all empty words, more like great lies. Again, this is similar to what John saw in Revelation as well. And for me, this is depicting the carnal nature in EVERY man, woman and child.

The beast was "given to the flame". That's why I believe we're seeing a fire and not crystal water as in Revelation. This is part of the process. Revelation is the end result of the process. This judgment that's been established is not against men, it's against the man in men. And as this beast was given to the flame, this really is a huge thing to grasp.

This represents the satan in us. And yes, satan . . . is . . .purified. That's what this river does. It transforms the carnality into purity. Or wait . . .do you think carnality is so strong that God doesn't have the power to transform it? Hell is cast into the lake of fire in Revelation . . .the antichrist, the false prophet, the devil . .. the dragon . . .it's all cast into the lake of fire. What do you think the lake of fire "does"? It transforms it's occupants from one form of matter into another . . .into purity.

Put a pin in the dominion of the beasts . . .we'll come back to that unless I forget.

And while I'm at it, with these beasts within us . . .not to mention this river of fire and everything else. In the New Testament, we're called to be "over-comers"

This term is used a ton to the 7 churches in Revelation, I've pulled up only one because it speaks to another point that I was just talking about earlier . . .we're God's books.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed


Now Jesus shows up and look at where the dominion went to. It went "from" the beasts within and it went "to" Christ. Are you seeing the process of transformation here? The dominion of the nature of man is changing hands from the beasts within to the anointed one . . .Christ in us, the hope of glory.

The emphasis shouldn't be on the beasts, the bear with three ribs, the leopard that can fly . . .or even the unidentifiable beast and the ten horns and all that . . .that's just the process going on in every man that leads us to "this". And all this unfolded to Daniel 500 years before it ever manifested on earth. And . . .keep in mind, this all began in the "first" year . . .the backdrop of sovereignty.

The reason why "self" always wants to take things into it's own hands is due to that horn . . .it's all about power and control. And note when God shows up, there's not even a battle. The river manifests, our "self" goes in it and boom . . .we're walking away with a renewed mind. How cool is that!!

See you all tomorrow afternoon . . . God bless.

15 Re: Daniel 7 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:09 am

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Ok, can't help but bring this in here. I shared this with Todd yesterday on the phone, and he said his baby leaped in his womb.

Many may know this from Gary off of Tentmaker, some may not.
The word used for "torment" from the lake of fire, is actually the word "Touchstone". The reason I bring this in here is because of what we're seeing in this pattern of The Metals.
Gold, Silver, Bronze, iron/clay.

A touchstone is a small tablet of dark stone such as fieldstone, slate, or lydite, used for assaying precious metal alloys. It has a finely grained surface on which soft metals leave a visible trace.[1]

Drawing a line with gold on a touchstone will leave a visible trace. Because different alloys of gold have different colors (see gold) the unknown sample can be compared to samples of known purity. This method has been used since ancient times. In modern times, additional tests can be done. The trace will react differently to specific concentrations of nitric acid or aqua regia, thereby identifying the quality of the gold. Thus 24 carat gold is not affected but 14 carat gold will show chemical activity.

It was also used by Indus Valley Civilization about 3500 BC for testing the purity of soft metals.

Torment/Tormented
bas'-an-os
Perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch stone, that is, (by analogy) torture: - torment.

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16 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:41 am

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That's one of those you wish you could just tattoo to the front lobe of your brain . . .tribulation is nothing what religion tries to make it out to be. It still ain't pretty, but it's not torture either. That's a great spot to put it in Scherryl . . .thanks for that!!

17 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:05 am

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15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


The interpreter is left without interpretation and fear begins to manifest. Clarity brings harmony, but the moment we're confronted with an unknown, our mind immediately starts throwing up godless images and the harmonious atmosphere becomes a noise of fear.

This so reminds me of many of Jesus experiences with the disciples. "Get into the boat and we'll go to the other side" Half way across, they forgot all about his promise they'd get to the other side due to the raging storm in front of them. Then another time he tells them "I must go to Jerusalem to killed, buried and resurrected" And Peter never got past the dead and buried. He never heard the resurrection. All he heard was death. Sound familiar?

How often do we, on a regular basis immediately assume the worst of a situation? Does not Scripture implore us, rather than worry and let our minds take us captive, we are to wait upon the Lord, that we may renew our strength and he enables us to mount up with wings as eagles. But time after time . . .Elijah, the great prophet let fear dictate to him who had the power when Jezebel set out a decree for his life. John the baptist, lost sight of things while he was imprisoned. All of these are examples "before" the upper room experience.

As we read through Daniel in this manner, it's "from" that upper room that we make these observations. After the upper room experience, things were much different . . .Paul and Silas . . .imprisoned again by the religious . .. isn't it interesting how religion is always involved in imprisoning those who exercise their spiritual freedom? But Paul and Silas were not distraught . . .they were singing and the locks to their bars released . . .God sent them an earthquake . . .a "shifting" of platforms beneath the surface of the earth. Think that's "just" a natural event?

And Peter, "after" the upper room, he was also imprisoned and what did he do? Before the upper room, he feared for his life, after . . .he was so sound asleep that the angel literally had to wake him up to lead him out. Isn't THAT a spiritual picture . . .how often can we be so lathargic in our own prison cells, in our own bondages, that we must be awakened from our slumber before we can be led out as well? Be "in" rest, but not "at" rest!! Ha!!

I love the angel's explanation when Daniel is scared to death by the images. The angel says "yeah, there's these four kings raising up to rule the world BUT . . .

But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and eve

Apparently Daniel missed the memo there . . . where in this vision did "that" happen? All through it . ..you just have to be looking at it from the ascended place to see it. If you are earth bound, you can't see the life in the situation. But once you break through . . .and how do you "break through"???

Remember? You enter into the kingdom the same way you go to sleep at night . . .you prepare your atmosphere, soften your field, open your heart . . .REMOVE YOUR MIND . . .set the stage and let the kingdom come to the forefront in you . . .it's not in another person or in a book. It's not even in Scripture. It's in you. The kingdom in you is what makes the Scripture come alive "to" you.

We have a new member just joining us . . .Karin . . she posted a quote on face book and it created all kinds of chaos. she stated something to the effect that putting the bible into the hands of an ignorant man is worse than a gun. When a person uses the Bible more as a weapon rather than a seed source, indeed, they do more harm than good. But the saints of God have been given the authority . . .so Daniel, you don't need to fear . . .don't let these images influence you. it's just a process. Look ahead . . .love wins.

18 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:03 am

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Amen Nathan,

To me this is another picture of The Reigning of Christ, "Now". 4 Is the number for earth, "our earth". Christ overcame the World, is our earth a big thing for Him to overcome within us? Not hardly.

If kings rise up out of our earth, then there is a reason for them, we are called to overcome them.

Kinda reminds me of the (Iron) Axe head that swam to the surface of the Water, "but ONLY when the Tree was put in the Waters" did this happen.

2Ki 6:5 But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed. This is the same word for sheol, that is so often translated hell.
2Ki 6:6 And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick Tree, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.

All things have purpose in God, for our benefit, and growth, the same as Daniel.

Ah, and the statement Karin made:

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19 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:31 pm

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"Borrowed" is the same word for Sheol? Really? I never knew that! That sure puts a whole different spin on the story then doesn't it! Amazing.

20 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:36 pm

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Yes, it sure does, this speaks of that hidden place within us that only God can see, and bring to the surface, so that it can be healed.

Yeah, the hell that mainstream teaches is actually a place to where we cry out to God, and "PRAY".

shaw-al', shaw-ale'
A primitive root; to inquire; by implication to request; by extension to demand: - ask (counsel, on), beg, borrow, lay to charge, consult, demand, desire, X earnestly, enquire, + greet, obtain leave, lend, pray, request, require, + salute, X straitly, X surely, wish.

Fascinating!!

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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21 Re: Daniel 7 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:04 pm

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19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


I bit off a sizable chunk this time due to the fact that it's a repetitive vision. And, I like standing back and observing the context as a whole. Did you know, the early church actually used the book of Revelation as their hymnal? What the church has twisted into an image full of death, thunder, doom, annihilation and mystery, it used to be a song book. It was sung by those with eyes that could see and ears that could hear.

These visions Daniel is having have much the same feel to them. The blade reaches down deep into the human soul, severs the rotting flesh from the healthy muscle, then as it peels back the ugly layer, light rushes in where death and disease once reigned and promise is reestablished, it's like the ointment that speeds up the healing process.

The 4th beast drives the occupants of the earth into the dirt. The flatlanders are not only influenced by this beastly nature, but they are imprisoned by it. It's at this stage of the message where most preachers would tell their congregations "look around you now, can you see how this is being fulfilled before our very eyes? You can't watch the news for 30 seconds without some murder, or drug deal or gays taking over the streets!!"

But don't do that. Don't look at the current state around you. Focusing on the current state is not the act of dimensional beings. It's the work of flatlanders. They're one dimensional. They're overwhelmed by the impending danger and darkness that lurks around every bend. Their cries to the Father are not cries of a conqueror, but of a helpless, defeated being with no hope, other than clinging on to that glorious day when Jesus returns and takes us all away from this hell hole we're in.

Have you heard that much lately? We just can't wait to leave the land that God gave us as an inheritance. We just can't wait to just disappear in the twinkling of an eye and leave behind those that we're supposed to love as ourselves. The enemies that we're supposed to be Jesus to with our Agape love. All we can think about is leaving. That's what happens to those who live in a current state of mind.

But no matter how ugly the beast, no matter how powerful it "appears" to be, the story never ends with darkness winning and ruling. Through this vision, Daniel was reminded again and again of how things were going to end. All this other stuff is, is a purging of the drudge that has been laying in the bottom of our souls. God is merely purging the sludge out of our beings so that where Christ is, we may ALL so be.

Many have come here in the state of verse 25. They're just worn out by the big words, the haughtiness of the religious. It's not the ungodly that bother me, it's the religious. But I'd like to think that as you come into this family, you immediately sense the absence of all the noise that's been blaring at you on every turn.

In the natural, I have a case of tinnitus . . .my ears never stop ringing. The quieter it is, the more prevalent the ringing. It's gotten worse over the last couple years. But that's just the natural. It's temporary because this flesh is temporary. I'm not worried in the least about the current state of this ol body of mine. I've been hearing a "sound" that draws me out of my "self" and into places where one dimensional minds can not go. And the peace is so powerful . . .the quiet is so refreshing, there's no tinnitus to distract in this arena, only joy, only praise . . .ya can't help it any more than a light bulb can help illuminating the moment you turn the switch on.

The beast is dead in the spirit, so why do we keep resurrecting the thing in the flesh? Earlier, we saw the dominion being taken away from the beast and given to the one seated next to the ancient of Days . . .and now . . .that dominion is not being "offered", it's being "given" to us. What do we have to do? One little thing . . .receive it.

Lay the weapons down, the plans of personal advancement, the attempts to change the current state. This is not a current state understanding. It's a finished state. It's a resurrected state. That's the thing about those that embrace what the angels said after Jesus had left. They said just as you saw him go, you'll see him return.

So, the church takes that literally and has been waiting for over 2000 years for the return of Jesus in his physical body. But they don't get it. He didn't leave in a physical body . . ."yes he did!! Thomas touched his side, he ate fish he was flesh again!" Really? How many bodies of flesh have you seen pass through walls? Or disappear from one place and immediately appear in another? If it wasn't a body of flesh that ascended, then what was it?

Just as you saw him go . . .how did they see him go? They saw him go in a resurrected body. he's not coming back in another body of flesh, he "is" back in a resurrected body that he left in. The only difference is, the flesh that was once his body in the singular form, is not flesh in a corporate one.

When we come to the place where we can lay down our current state of mind and walk in a finished state, "then" we'll be walking in an ascended place continuously. We won't see the doom and gloom, we won't smell the aroma of death or taste the destructive nature of men. Instead we'll all walk in the finished works, in the resurrected state where all we see is the end from our beginning and we won't get overwhelmed with the process in between that connects the two.

This one is running a little long . . .so let me amuse you with a true story that is also a good example of the point I'm trying to make. I've been married to a wonderful wife for just under 25 years. We have 4 great kids and two extremely loving cats. Over the years, we've tried dogs. I grew up with a dog I loved dearly. He was the best hunting dog. He loved hunting pheasants and rabbits. And I loved shooting them.

So naturally, I thought if we ever got a dog, I'd want to get a hunting dog. My wife on the other hand . . .sigh . . . she wanted a house dog. As far as I'm concerned, house dogs are useless. All they do is pee and poop and they won't hunt, the moment the door is open they want to run off, and . . .they smell. But, being the wonderful husband I am, I would cave and we would get a house dog.

But it just never worked for us. The kids liked the "idea" of having one, but not the upkeep required to actually own one. The latest example was a dog we bought . . .OUT OF STATE . . .don't even get me started . . .Suzanne found one on Craig's list or something like it and fell in love with the picture. What could "I" do? I'm the awesome husband remember???

So we drove . . .a LOOOOONG time . . did I mention it was OUT OF STATE??? And we got the dog. We were told the dog didn't bark, it was a relatively small dog. And she was house trained . . .they lied about EVERYTHING. The only part that was true was, when she had to go . . she wouldn't bark. So we never knew when she had to go . . .until of course when she went.

We had her for probably 8 months right up to about a month ago and I couldn't stand the smell in the house anymore. Not everyone could smell it, but I could and . . .that's all that matters . .right? So we went to Wal-mart and rented a rug-doctor. And I spent an entire day cleaning carpets.

It was an amazing transformation. Right up until the next morning, I get up for work and . . .find a deposit right in the middle of the living room floor . . . I come home from work that night . . .taking my shoes off . . .I have my heart set on my man-cave and just as I get to the bottom of our stairs . . .my sock finds a wet spot that shouldn't be there . . .so I made the announcement to my wife, we are getting rid of the . . .(I don't swear, but if I did, I'd put that word right about here) . . . dog.

Turns out she found a few deposits of her own and she knew we had to do something, but . . . it was her dog!!! So because I was the one that wanted to just get rid of it, I should be the one that finds another home for it. "MY" logic was, she bought it, "she" can get rid of it. Things were not happy in our house. We were quiet around each other for the next day. Then she was fidgeting about what to do with the dog . . .and HERE'S why I told you this story and how it relates to what I've said above.

My wife is a guru when it comes to bargains. I've never seen anything like it. The item doesn't even have to be in her expertise, she just astounds everyone she helps. She's gotten our older girls jobs because of what she can do with a resume, she's gotten our girl's friends extra money because of what she can do with taxes . . .and garage sales!!! Forget about it!! I've truly never seen anything like it. But the dog? zip.

Just can't figure out how to get rid of it. So . . .I heard myself say . . ."If you put as much energy into getting rid of the dog as you did in finding it, the thing would have been gone before I even could finish my sentence that it had to go! Within the HOUR . . .she found a way to let someone else deal with the dog. Next day . . .dog was gone.

What's the connection? Here it is. God has taken all of that power in the darkness, the fear, the intimidation, the shame . . .and he's reversed it into a resurrection light within every one of us. Everything that originally brought death and destruction, he has redirected that power into a force that can not be challenged. When we look past our current state and embrace the finished state of the Father in us . . . the smelly dogs in your life will be gone before you even finish your prayer to the Father to remove them. (Hows that for a tie in!!)

Time for me to call it a night.

22 Re: Daniel 7 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:58 pm

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Oopsies . . .didn't realize that was so close to the end of the chapter . . . missed the last verse. So I thought I'd post it in the Message Translation . . .one of my favorites.

23-25 “The bystander continued, telling me this: ‘The fourth animal is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from the first three kingdoms, a monster kingdom that will chew up everyone in sight and spit them out. The ten horns are ten kings, one after another, that will come from this kingdom. But then another king will arrive. He will be different from the earlier kings. He will begin by toppling three kings. Then he will blaspheme the High God, persecute the followers of the High God, and try to get rid of sacred worship and moral practice. God’s holy people will be persecuted by him for a time, two times, half a time.

26-27 “‘But when the court comes to order, the horn will be stripped of its power and totally destroyed. Then the royal rule and the authority and the glory of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the people of the High God. Their royal rule will last forever. All other rulers will serve and obey them.’

28 “And there it ended. I, Daniel, was in shock. I was like a man who had seen a ghost. But I kept it all to myself.”


One last thought as we look at this internally and remember the whole thing is based on "ten" kings . . . which represents law. Out of law came the most ungodly king that killed "three" kings. This just screams at me the fact that when we embrace "law" we are killing the resurrection that came through the law in the form of Christ himself.

Jesus already fulfilled the law. Yet religion adamantly enforces that very same law upon it's members. Being a Christian is all about what you "do" . . .it's all about what YOU do. In the name of Jesus of course, but the focus is misguiding because it's labeled under "Jesus" but it's message is all about "you". In the kingdom, there is no "me". My identity has been transformed.

Now the words out of my mouth are words of love, life, freedom, peace, joy and honor. There's no "me" in there. While at the same time, IN HIM I live, and move . . .and have MY being. No one has forced me to give the appearance of what a Christian is. God has transformed me inwardly so that my outward nature is merely reflecting that inward transformation.

That's what saddens me with all these churches we have around us. The leadership goes through great lengths at "teaching" the members how to mimic their image of what a Christian should be. And they base it on what they read from Scriptures.

In case you haven't heard this before, let me insert it here. I DO NOT BASE MY FAITH IN GOD ON WHAT I READ IN SCRIPTURE. That really ticks a lot of the religious people off when I say stuff like that. But the truth is, faith doesn't come by what MY MIND interprets Scripture to be saying. Faith comes by HEARING the Word . . .WHICH IS AN INWARD EXPERIENCE. So what's the point of reading the Bible?

I read it because it affirms, it brings affirmation to MY MIND of what the Father has already been revealing to MY SPIRIT.

But religion takes the examples of how Christians act in Scripture and they make rules to force people to then give the appearance of how a Christian acts, rather than pursue the true transformational power of God through relationship that changes one "inwardly" which then we automatically walk as a Christian "outwardly" They've got it backwards.

But Jesus already said "that" as well when he said in the kingdom, the first will be last and the last will be first. The least in this realm is actually the greatest in the spiritual realm. In other words, the kingdom is literally BACKWARDS in comparison to this realm. That's why I'm always ranting about the fact that when we enter into spiritual matters, there needs to be a shifting of gears in our mind from operation to observation.

If we rely on our mind's logic when attempting to enter into spiritual truths, we'll get it wrong every time because natural logic and reason does not apply. Law is embraced by natural reasoning. You poke my eye out, I get to poke your eye out. That seems fair and makes sense.

Then Jesus comes along with this whole other set of rules . . two actually . . .love the Father and love your neighbor. And "now" if someone pokes you in the eye, you don't poke them back, you turn the other cheek. That makes absolutely no sense. Which is the first sign that you're on the right track!!

These kings birthed out of law, and out of these kings came one that was worse than all of them combined. But . . . this isn't the natural realm that wrote this story. The natural realm is merely following the blueprint drawn in the spiritual realm. So . . as bad as this last king is, he gets stripped of his power and thrown into this river of fire.

That's really my prayer. seriously. I pray that because I know where it leads. It leads to a purity and perfection that my natural mind can't comprehend. The images it projects don't come close to the reality of the fire of God. Remember in the upper room? Fire was there to!! TONGUES of fire. After that, their speech was never the same. They spoke mysterious things about life, freedom, love, forgiveness and reproduction.

Father, send your fire, consume me, purify this vessel and fill it with your message of life and freedom. Let this river flow from you through me and out into this realm around me where dryness, death and destruction flourish. But I renounce it's advance. I stand and proclaim where death "is", life springs forth. Where destruction has come, restoration has overtaken it. And where dryness has choked out the living, the river has broken the banks that kept it in and now, all who are thirsty may receive the life-giving waters of the spirit of truth. Let Freedom Ring!!!

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