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Whats with them demons??

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51 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:17 am

klm4jc


Golly gee, go away for four days and.........

Reminds me of when my parents use to go away for the weekend and we would have a party. They'd come back and the place would be a wreck. I tried to catch up on this thread this morning but couldn't quite make it through all of the 'destruction'.

Very interesting.......very interesting. Can't wait to catch up and join back in.

52 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:43 pm

cross-eyed

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Hey guys . . . I just had a pm by one of you that brought up a great question that I thought would be a good addition to this thread. They were reading one of the tapes from "The Mystery of Christ In You" series and came across an insertion of mine and had a question about it. It goes as follows . . .
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Hey Nathan, it seems that the dictation you did for the mystery of Christ in you is a couple years old. I was wondering if you had any new insight or commentary on this editor's note regarding being one with Christ or with with 'other spirits'. Based on our previous discussions of demonic spirits. Just curious. Here is what you said previous:
"
Even as I wrote my last sentence, I didn’t realize there are some famous verses in this context. All things are lawful . . . this has been an area that I have used before when we first were introduced to seeing God as a form of life instead of written law. Everything out there, we can do if we want, but the result of some of those things lead to a damaged relationship or at least, we become ineffective in overcoming bondages in our own lives. So even though we emphasize life, there is still a balance that we all should realize and pay attention to in every one of our lives.

But the focus of this passage is in verses 16 and 17 concerning our spiritual condition and what spirits reside in what body. See we take passages like the experience Jesus had when encountering a man with a legion of demons in him and we standardize that with a principle that says, I am one body that was created to house the Holy Spirit, but other spirits can reside in this body also. I can have more than one spirit in me. But the reality is, when you join together with one, the other exits.

Look at what that says he that is joined to a harlot is one body. You may have more than one demonic spirit working in you, but you’re spirit and they become one. What’s that say about Christians that are also afflicted with demonic spirits? Let’s be realistic, let’s lay down the religious or pious image and just be real. If there truly is demonic activity in your body, just how much are you really in Christ? Because the politically correct church will tell you that you can be a Christian and also be spiritually bound, but that’s not truly accurate. To cling to that is to ignore this passage of Scripture.

When Christ is really in you, your spirit melds together with His spirit and you take on his identity and lose your own. Isn’t that what we’ve been talking about all this time? I’ve even preached this idea that when a man and a woman intimately come together physically, there is a spiritual transaction that takes place there as well. But where I would trip up is when I’d say that then if one of those two get intimate with a third, that they then carry around the spiritual seed of both at the same time.

But again, this passage just tells us that when there is fornication, which isn’t about premarital sex, it’s about sexual perversion. But when there’s fornication or adultery in a relationship, the individual has become one with the third party. Because if they remained as one with the one they’re married to, the one they made a covenant with, there never would have been any fornicating in the first place. Are you following this?

Understand what I’m saying though, I do believe there are people that have been blindly married to the wrong spirits and when they find Christ, there is a different kind of warring taking place, not the warring Paul refers to with your Adamic nature warring the nature of Christ. But there are people who come into the faith that continue to carry their invisible partners with them. Maybe the church has messed up our mindset with this because I really didn’t see anywhere in Scripture where Jesus, Paul, Peter or anyone else were casting demons out of believers.

Think about it, the reason they “need” to have some one pray on them for deliverance is because they can’t do it themselves. Yet Scripture plainly states “Greater is he that is . . .IN . .me” If Christ is “in” you, truly in you, then there’s no place for the devil. If you still have demonic activity going on in you, my only question would then be, who was it that you invited in you? Did you go through life or religion? "


My response today was . . .
When I post these things on the forum, I seldom do much reading as it takes quite a while just to reformat . . .however . . .there have been some times when I do find myself reading my own edits and there's been a time or two that I've realized I've shifted a bit on my perspectives since then. But I've still left the original stuff in because one, if I began editing the edits, I'd more than likely bog myself down trying to reclarify what I was clarifying. A vicious cycle.

And two, I didn't want to impose on the continuity of what was originally written. But even then, I don't remember which tape it was in, I still inserted an updated version of what I see now as opposed to what I saw then . . .but again, I don't remember where that was at. And I don't think I did that at all with what I email out . . .those are just word documents that I don't even open up at all.

Having said all of that, as I read through what you sent, I can see and "kind of" remember (it's been several years since I did all of that) where I was when I wrote some of that. The short answer for me here is, I see a person in transition between what was taught and what is revealed about this particular subject.

I'm still not fully sure where I am on the "adulteration between two people and the third person" piece of it. I can still see how whenever we are intimate with another person, we walk away with a fragment of who that person is, that's inside us now.

I'm going to write this out here and see how it looks.

I believe whenever we try to physically apply a spiritual principle, we, ourselves, adulterate the purity of the seed being planted.

I'm gonna let that sit for a while . . .

I think ever since God removed Eve from Adam, man, without a woman remains incomplete. Which brings me back to seeing the invisible bond that takes place when we become physically intimate with each other. So . . in that sense, I still see how we can adulterate the oneness when we introduce a third person into the union we had with our mate.

Having said that, I do separate the difference between that, and a "demon" that is to "possess" us. My body "is" a temple that houses a spirit that becomes one with the Holy Spirit. But to take the next step and say my body also can house demonic spirits, I believe is over-shooting the target.

Because what this all boils down to is, identifying what demons are . . .and that leads to the question . . .where did they come from? Why didn't Jesus destroy them when he encountered them? Why did he even "reason" with them? Why did he seem to treat them in the same manner he treated people? He was, in fact, much more aggressive with the religious than he was with the demons ravaging people. I think there's still something beneath the surface of that, that people are still overlooking.

I remember when I was going through all these transformational experiences of seeing things dimensional and this topic was always kind of floating around without really landing anywhere. It was always a mystery to me as to where demons fell into the picture. I had asked those that were introducing me into the kingdom principles about it on several occasions and I never got a satisfying answer.

And by the way, that's another reason why I struggle with seeing them as evil spirits on the prowl, hungry for human occupancy . . .it came from traditional teachings and so far, there isn't "one" tradition left that I can embrace.

The last word I got from my friend on it was, they want to do more personal evaluation on the matter before trying to explain what they see on the issue.

For me, I do believe that it's entirely possible for a person who is physically dead, to still be a presence to someone who is physically alive. I don't believe it to be a demonic thing. I believe heaven is in our midst . . .just on the other side of the veil of our physical life and awareness.

But for me now, a "demon" better fits the role of a carnal manifestation more than a minion of Satan. Which "is" different from where I was when I originally wrote those edits. But it's not to say it's the final word of what it actually is. If that makes any sense.
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Feel free to share whatever jumps out in your spirit!!

53 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:39 pm

Karin1


Andre Rabe & Joshua Tongol have a Q&A video on the subject of Satan/Demons which may help in this discussion.
http://youtu.be/j_7uu0mJV2U

54 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:01 pm

cross-eyed

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Absolutely wonderful video . . .I wholly agree with what the Father has revealed to them as well.

55 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:06 pm

cross-eyed

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I've been looking all over for this passage . . .couldn't remember where it was. In the video they spoke about how the demonic activity seemed to disappear when they stopped embracing the traditional opinions of them and it reminded me o the passage where Scripture talks about there not being any "place" for the devil in the kingdom . . .but the reason why I couldn't find it was because it originally wasn't referred to as the devil or satan . . .but instead it was speaking of the dragon . . .which is later explained to be satan and the devil.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Oooh . . .then there's this other passage . . .

Matthew 25
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Hmmm . . .everlasting fire . . .who is the everlasting fire? So many have preached this is about people being cast into hell "with" satan but the truth is, the only reason for "casting" is BECAUSE OF the CARNALITY (satan) in us and the MESSAGE (angels/messengers) of death that it carries with it that causes us to resist the eternal fire of the Father . . . once carnality is consumed by Him, we become transformed "in" him.

56 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:03 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Admin
This scripture has always puzzled me a little bit...
How can.... He who "IS" a consuming fire ..."Prepare A" consuming fire....

It's kinda like saying He who "IS" Love....Prepares "A Love"...see what I mean?






The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

57 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:22 pm

cross-eyed

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I don't know if this helps or not, but the fire prepared is past tense . . .God's way of saying he's made himself ready to cleanse some carnality perhaps?

58 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:52 am

Holly1

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Oh! Artic when I read your question it reminded me of something Cardinal wrote once. She said we are becoming the lake of fire... it's in one of the writings I sent to you. You could search your email for "we are becoming the lake of fire they are cast into". I can't describe these things very well so I'll leave that job to Card lol.

Blessings!

59 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:01 pm

cross-eyed

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cross-eyed wrote:I've been looking all over for this passage . . .couldn't remember where it was. In the video they spoke about how the demonic activity seemed to disappear when they stopped embracing the traditional opinions of them and it reminded me o the passage where Scripture talks about there not being any "place" for the devil in the kingdom . . .but the reason why I couldn't find it was because it originally wasn't referred to as the devil or satan . . .but instead it was speaking of the dragon . . .which is later explained to be satan and the devil.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Oooh . . .then there's this other passage . . .

Matthew 25
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Hmmm . . .everlasting fire . . .who is the everlasting fire? So many have preached this is about people being cast into hell "with" satan but the truth is, the only reason for "casting" is BECAUSE OF the CARNALITY (satan) in us and the MESSAGE (angels/messengers) of death that it carries with it that causes us to resist the eternal fire of the Father . . . once carnality is consumed by Him, we become transformed "in" him.

I think I kind of distracted myself from what I was originally going for in this one . . .but it's about how the church has created a place for demonic activity as they exercise ministries that deal primarily in the demonic. But when walking in this new perspective on the matter, I've come to see what has been attributed as demonic is really a manifestation of mind manipulation and this video posted on this thread touches briefly on that as well.

The guys on there are quite cautious about how far to share out with this because there's been so much ingrained by the church that to introduce a different perspective often times becomes too radical to be received. But the passage about "no place found for him in heaven" kept haunting me.

It really boils down to the fact that whatever our minds "imagine" or "envision", we can inadvertently create something we're consciously unaware that we're doing it and because there's a physical manifestation, we are easily convinced of someone's doctrine because clearly, there's physical evidence that an invisible force is manifesting so when someone gives their explanation, we just accept it as the truth.

Why did the boy in Scripture throw himself into the fire? Why couldn't the disciples deliver him . . .that's a powerful picture right there. Oh wow . . . interesting what things you see once you look up the passage.

I never realized this boy who fell into fire, didn't just have issues falling into fire, but he was prone to falling in water as well . . .

I'll give you the Message Translation's rendition of the event unfolding.

Matthew 17
14-16 At the bottom of the mountain, they were met by a crowd of waiting people. As they approached, a man came out of the crowd and fell to his knees begging, “Master, have mercy on my son. He goes out of his mind and suffers terribly, falling into seizures. Frequently he is pitched into the fire, other times into the river. I brought him to your disciples, but they could do nothing for him.”

17-18 Jesus said, “What a generation! No sense of God! No focus to your lives! How many times do I have to go over these things? How much longer do I have to put up with this? Bring the boy here.” He ordered the afflicting demon out—and it was out, gone. From that moment on the boy was well.

19 When the disciples had Jesus off to themselves, they asked, “Why couldn’t we throw it out?”

20 “Because you’re not yet taking God seriously,” said Jesus. “The simple truth is that if you had a mere kernel of faith, a poppy seed, say, you would tell this mountain, ‘Move!’ and it would move. There is nothing you wouldn’t be able to tackle.”


First . . .this unfolded at "the bottom of the mountain". which is interesting because most things happen "on" or "at the top of" a mountain. For me, "mountain" signifies the government of God . .which . .at it's core is simply . .LOVE. This happened at the "base" of the mountain . . at the "foundation" of this mountain. It is an unveiling of the state of the relationship between God and man. And what is revealed? The lack of faith.

Secondly . . .did you notice the reference to the boys state of "mind"? There was a disconnect taking place in the boy's mind . . .spirits and demons . . .actually, original definition calls it "devils" which literally means "traducers" which is the core activity of the carnal mind.

Then there's this . . .the King James and other traditional translations have this verse . . .

21 [j]But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.

But two of my favorite translations omit it . . including the message. Then I found one, the "Amplified" version that had the verse in but it was italicized with a footnote saying that this verse was not included in all of the original manuscripts. That's HUGE!!

I was raised on the fact that when you're dealing with demons, you better be prayed up and fasted up before you go into areas where you could be attacked. That was ingrained in me . . .it required the labor of praying and fasting . . .ministry works that gave you extra super-powers.

But the message Jesus was giving them was not about being prayed up, but merely about having any faith at all . . .believing in what can't be seen, receiving in what can't be understood. The disciples were still being influenced by what their natural eyes saw rather than what the spirit was revealing. It disabled them to bring order and alignment back to this child.

The bottom line, if we give place to demonic activity, there will be manifestations of what our minds identify as demonic activity. But when we find NO PLACE for demonic activity to manifest . . .then it won't. Faith . . .it is a spiritual experience manifesting with a contrite heart . . .a broken mind. A mind "in" brokenness.

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