APlace2Rest

You are not connected. Please login or register

Whats with them demons??

Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 3]

1 Whats with them demons?? on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:45 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
Remember when I mentioned how I love questions? Well, one of you emailed one to me today and I thought I'd be bold enough to post my response to it and see what happens. The question was after this person read my book, they wondered what I thought demons were if satan was my carnal mind rather than what tradition has taught all these years.

It might be a little lengthy, are you surprised?

--------------------------------------------------------

Heh, heh . . . what are the demons . . . yeah, I searched a long time for that one. The friends that were mid-wives to my birthing in these spiritual things would never answer directly that same question I posed to them as well. First of all . . .the book(s) you've read by me are the culmination of about a 7 years of maturing into these matters. There "are" some who've written books and articles on these subjects . . as you mentioned Eby, there's another that someone on a forum was convinced I'd studied up on because a lot of what I was posting was almost verbatum of what this guy had written back in the 1st century . . .I can't even remember his name.

But I obviously hadn't read up on anyone. The only thing I did was transcribe the revelation tape series given by Randall Worley. I was just pmed today by one of the members on our forum about the latest installment I posted on tape 15. He came across a paragraph in there that "I" had inserted as an editor's note where I said that when Jesus comes back those who rejected him will forever be in a place of torment . . .it threw him because he's read other places where I've posted about universalism . . . There are 34 tapes to the revelation series. I think it's been about 5 years since I first transcribed the tape series. And at tape 15, "I" was still of the belief that there would be eternal torment. That just blew me away. I didn't realize I still believed that at that point in my life.

But in looking back, I do recall that the topic of hell was one of the last major paradigm shifts I relayed from the pulpit. I just didn't realize that it was "that" late in my journey is all. But my point is, it's all a PROCESS of maturity in our relationship with the Father. And what you read was the end result of a very slow process for me. I took it in stages.

I had a lot of questions but the answers didn't come nearly as frequent as the questions did. Now I'm in a place where I can hopefully help others in their growth and maturity as well. What I've written may be an assistance to increasing the maturity level in someone who's hunger is greater than their understanding. That's my vision for this forum . . . it's to help people realize the infinity of the Father is actually living in these finite bodies of flesh and blood. We just need to aim our attention in the right direction and his presence in our lives does the rest.

As to the demons, I can only tell you what I see them to be . .. if it resonates in you . . .that would be totally awesome! If not, I'm absolutely okay with that as well. I never assume my perspective is "the" perspective anymore . . .I did enough of that in my traditional days and all it did was create division and offense. So . . .here's what I see today.

It's funny you would bring up the passage referring to the "legion" of demons. If you remember in my book, there are three major references to satan. One is, the devil which original translation means "traducer". Which isn't a word we often use in our vocabulary, but when you look up it's meaning, the first definition is "accuser". Which then immediately it fits in as there is a Scripture reference that refers to satan as the "accuser of the bretheren". So our english word "devil" really should just say "accuser".

Then the word "satan" which literally means "adversary" which is exactly what Paul says our carnal minds are. They are at "emnity" against God. Paul reached all the way back to the garden in Genesis to reuse that term. It was the same relationship Eve had with the serpent . . .that's where this whole "mind=satan" thing starts. The third one is "Lucifer" which again is covered in the book as well. And that literally means light-bearer which doesn't fit the devil, satan or the serpent at all. But it "does" fit the original Adam. It fits man in general as we all are light bearers . . .we carry the spirit of life within our beings.

So if satan, the devil and Lucifer are not what we were taught that they were, then that FORCES me to re-examine what I was taught about demons as well. And the reason why I was amused by your reference to the legion of demons is because that's where understanding first began unfolding in me as well.

First, the original language never refered to them as demons . . .that came through translation, and it perverts the truth of what they actually were. If satan is my carnal mind, then so-called demons, which are under the authority of satan, are also connected to my mind. The proof of this actually starts to emerge when you delve into quantum physics and see how things invisible to the naked eye are actually very active and reliant on our presence, our speech and even our thoughts.

There is a little pamphlet written by a woman named "Annette Caps" entitled "Quantum Faith". It blew my socks off. It's such a small booklet but man, it's so explosive. Her website is http://annettecapps.com/ if you want to order one, it's only a couple bucks. But it bridges the gap between what the church has deemed demonic and what is actually real. There's also a couple cartoon videos that explain the basics that are extremely helpful to this as well. It's at http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dr.+quantum&mid=A52698E8BC7E73F9E5F0A52698E8BC7E73F9E5F0&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2 Or, just type in "Dr. Quantum" in your search window and it should be one of the first options.

In short, it's basically the logic behind people who talk to their plants . . .or farmers that play soothing music when milking their cows . . . or if you've ever walked into a room where there was a big fight taking place just before you entered . . ."the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife" . . . it's a real experience because there are real atoms reacting to us.

It's dealing with how the sound of our voices literally create the atmosphere around us to be either positive or negative. That's why Scripture says with our tongue, we have the power to bring life or death. This to, goes all the way back to the beginning in Genesis when God first began creating the earth.

It says first that darkness was upon the face of the deep . .it then says that the spriit moved upon the face of the waters . . .there's so much there, But for now, the word "waters" isn't quite what you'd think. It's actually connected to the word "semen".

God was creating just just a place for us to dwell, but he was creating an atmosphere for us to create in the same manner that "he" creates. Just as everything he spoke came into existence, he created an atmosphere that does the same thing for us, but we really don't use that to our advantage at all. Remember what faith is? seeing things as though they are . . .and then calling them out. Speaking life into the atmosphere brings life to those around us. That's also why gossiping is singled out in Scripture.

What does all of this have to do with demons? I beleive what the church calls demonic is nothing more than the reaction to someone controling energy in a negative way and often times, we tap into a level of this negativity and we don't even know how much we've released into our lives. We can't control it because in ignorance, we released it, be it through words, thoughts or . . and here's where I think a lot of this comes from . . .our "subconscious".

I've been on both sides of the demon thing when I was in church. I've cast them out and I've had others pray them out of me . . .and to tell you the truth, there hasn't ever been a case that I can't say that it wasn't more of an inward misalignment in someone's mind, or subconsciousness than it was an actual evil spirit as the church has taught us.

Jesus called them devils. Or . . acusers . . .and really, if you think about it . . .the guy was to have 20,000 demons in him? That's what "legion" means. That whole story just oozes with symbolism. But I'll leave you with this. This is what drove the last nail in the coffin for me on this issue . . .it's the state of the man "after" Jesus freed him of the legion.

Mark 5
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, AND IN HIS RIGHT MIND: and they were afraid

First they were afraid of the guy because he was wildly out of his own control. Then they were afraid because he got his sanity back. Fear works on both sides of the ball. In the end, his mind was restored . . .it was a mental thing all along.

2 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:56 pm

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
I absolutely agree with this Nathan, that has been my understanding for quite some time also.

In fact me and Jugg, was talking about this the other night, and what really started it for me, was the "the flood of Noah" and "the swine that ran down a steep place and drowned".

My question that got me thinking along the same lines as you is, "can you drown a spirit?" I don't think so, so what happens to them?

Does evil exist in the Heavens? or does it only exist in this realm, where it can feed off of the carnal minds of men?

After all isn't it's food dust?

These are some of the questions I would like to get into also. But especially "The Swine" in the Gospels.

If The Swine drowned in the water, could it be the picture of the Gentiles, being baptized into Christ, and therefore finding no place in us anymore, and then returning back to the people who kept them???? Could this be also a reason why they ask Jesus to leave. Could it be a picture of the Church, The "Penned in" is in the definition of the Swine I think, it's been a while.

Just pondering out loud.

I just wanted to add this, I went back and checked if I was right about the swine connected to something being "Penned in" and it is in the Hebrew.

khaz-eer'
From an unused root probably meaning to inclose; a hog (perhaps as penned): - boar, swine.





The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

3 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:54 pm

Racham


This topic interests me (wink, wink)...

God has made King Nebu and Saul insane by sending them evil spirits. So it seems that God uses these spirits to accomplish His purpose. Just wondering out loud too Smile


For ie.,:
So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him. 1 Samuel 16:23

4 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:57 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

avatar
Admin
Now that makes sense, I find that in my own writings that the style of it is changing.

Nathan, your perspective on your own perspective is right on for me also, because I no longer say that what I believe "is" truth, I am saying at this point in time in my life, I believe it is truth.

The one thing that has changed in my writings is that I say, "I have come to understand" rather than saying "we need to understand" or "you need to understand". I see this as a demon that has been cast out of me. This is something that is constantly brought to mind.

It is longer speaking from a spirit of pride because we will always admit we might be wrong.

And that is what I love about this forum, we all learn from each other and mainly because we do not judge each other.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

5 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
I remember with Pharoah, it doesn't say God sent evil spirits into him but instead it says God "set his heart against". For me, that's saying the same thing. But did God "literally" set his heart against Moses? Or did God use his prophet to cause Pharoah to set his heart against him?

It get's kind of tough when we literalize what we think we're reading. You can ask any traditional believer "What's the difference between an evil spirit in the Old Testament and a devil or demon in the New Testament?" And they'll all more than likely agree that they're the same thing.

Think about the conversation in Job where satan shows up at the throne and has a conversation with God. Our minds throw up an image that seems to make sense. God asks what satan has been up to and satan replies that he's been roaming to and fro over the earth . . .just wandering around looking for opportunities to create devastations.

A hurricane here, a tidal wave there . . .couple earth quakes . . .you know God . .the usual. And we find ourselves nodding in agreement with the image OUR MIND has created for us to believe. But lets think about the logistics for a second.

God tells Moses that he can't look upon him because it would destroy him to do so. You would be better off staring at the natural sun, than looking at God himself. And then there's the death at the ark. The ark symbolized God's presence and no man could touch the ark without sudden death.

Then we see God in the form of fire leading the Israelites into Canaan. And God's mere presence drove out all his enemies . .just by showing up. We've even seen and said that with the presence of God in us, we are protected from the darkness around us . . .so much so that he calls us stars in the night, a city on a hill that shines his truth into the darkness . . .yes???

In the middle of all of this sovereignty, Satan strolls up to him like it's a walk in the park. He's not struck dead. He's not purified, he's not petrified. It's like satan has this holy-proof parka he wears that God's light just can't seem to penetrait. And he has casual conversation with God. Any of you see anything strange about that? It's like satan is higher than human beings.

We can't approach God but heck, satan gets a front row seat, even dinner and a movie!

Then there's Jesus . . .he's got ONE MAN that has 20,000 demons . . .invisible spirits that hate us and hate God even more . . . And Jesus has a conversation with them! They're supposed to be THE enemy of God. Nobody hates God more than they do. You'd think that Jesus wouldn't even give them the opportunity to say anything at all. He loves us to much that he has a personal quest to free us from these invisible things that are set on destroying us so he sends fire from heaven and destroys them at every opportunity he gets . . .no? No.

Not only does he "not" destroy them, he actually lets them have their request. Really?

Not only does God not destroy satan, he makes a bet with him to string poor old Job along as far as he can . . .but he can't actually kill him. Yeah . .that's Gods love all right.

I just don't think what we're reading in these things is really what went down. Jesus treats these demons the same way he treated the people around him . . .ever notice that? In fact, you could even say he treated them BETTER than he did the Pharisees in Matthew 23 with the 7 woes . . .I didn't see him break out the cat of nine tails when he encountered the spirits . . .I gotta quit calling them that. They're devils . . . traducers . . .accusers . . .and yeah, they're really destructive when they're paid with our attention.

Our call is to walk in the spirit is it not? That should really be the emphasis of our identity just as much as we try to maintain this forum to live by it's name . . .when I walk in the spirit, I don't emphasize what the natural side is trying to tell me. I look for the patterns, the signs, the types and shadows that all point in the same direction. They lead me to Christ. But only when I'm walking in the spirit . . .when I'm walking in the flesh, I see demons, spirits from hell . . .I see fear and death . . .destruction at every turn. What's "your" battle cry? Freedom of truth? Or retreat to the acceptance of men.

6 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:38 am

klm4jc


Fascinating topic. I'm sure you will all appreciate this. I have been absent from the forum for a bit for various reasons but was having an email discussion with someone not connected with the forum. This was a question I posed to him.

"We have been taught that God is omnipresent, there is no where you can go where He is not. We have also been taught that evil can not exist within His presence, at least that is what I have heard countless times by various preachers. If God is omnipresent and evil can not exist in His presence, how can the devil or evil for that matter exist at all?"

While it isn't necessarily a question about 'demon's', it is a question about the nature and presence of evil. I just thought it was interesting that the spirit had me in a similar frame of mind though I had not been on the forum for a bit.......

Any who...... a question for you. So if the 'accusers' are really just machinations or entities of our own carnal minds, what was actually cast into the swine then? For something drove them over the cliff. Since swine are not people and do not have the capacity for thought in the way that we do (though they say pigs are very smart), how do these accusers within our own carnality transfer? Or do you feel it is all just hyperbole?

Kevin

7 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:10 am

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
Hi Kevin Welcome back,

Yes, I have had questions concerning these Swine for a long time.

These are some things that I have come to understand, not by Revelation but by digging.

1. Under Law they are Unclean, because they cheweth not the cud. (have not the Word, to meditate/chew on).

2. The Jews referred to The Nations/Gentiles as Swine.

3. We are not to cast our pearls before Swine/(Religion/unbelievers).

I still lean more towards The Swine being symbolic for the Gentiles, and them drowning in the Water is symbolic for The Baptism of Christ, it is also our Death to be baptized into Christ. But what of the Unclean spirits? I think this is a key verse for our understanding.

Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Many overlook this verse, notice the unclean spirit is seeking rest in "Dry Places"? Not where there is Water.
The Holy Spirit removed the comma between places and seeking for me when I read, and it makes a big difference.

But when he findeth none, he returns back to the house he left.

A Jew today after Christ Resurrection, is one who is circumcised in heart, any one now that is not, would be considered a Gentile now right? So where would they have returned too? Back to the ones who kept them, or Penned them in. I believe that's why they asked Jesus to leave their city. And as of today it stands in Ruins.

Just my thoughts on the Swine.
Blessings





The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

8 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:21 am

Guest


Guest
Swine, flesh, penned, bound, descent, water, spirit, baptism. So beautiful how this unfolds! And how many who have been able to witness the theater of this moment as God showed them in the flesh just what is, in the Spirit.

I wonder if those present witnessed the actions of the man and the swine just as it was written, but could recount the dialogue between Jesus and 'legion' only after Jesus described it to them.

9 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:51 am

cross-eyed

avatar
What is witchcraft? Is it real? Are they calling up evil spirits to do bidding on their behalf? Or couldn't instead be manipulating invisible energy, but natural nonetheless and "calling it" spirit activity?

I remember Jacob and Esau, Jacob seemed to have witchcraft tendencies. He was able to manipulate the patterns of their coats while still in the womb by sticking reeds in the mud where they came to drink. Was that demonic?

My problem with admitting an evil spirit is just that, a "spirit" of darkness . . . it then causes you to look at the bigger picture and look for the source of these spirits. Are they the spirits of the beings from Genesis 6 where literal fallen angels slept with literal women and produced half human-half spirit beings with super powers that drowned in the flood?

And that leads to the question as to a spirit God created for a specific role and purpose, only to rebel and try to over-throw God, but instead of God destroying them, he would confine them to our habitat where they could then wreak their havoc in us.

That whole line of thought leads me back to acknowledging satan as the traditions of men have embraced all these years and I can't do that because I no longer believe it to be so. I know it can "appear" to be, but as we've all learned through our own personal experiences, what we see literally doesn't prove anything. If they did, then why do we see a regular call for those with eyes to see and those with ears to hear.

So, what I do is look at it in reverse. Instead of basing in on what "I think" Scripture is saying, I begin with what I believe God has revealed about the symbolism of what satan is and go from there.

Remember the crown . . .Jesus wore one of thorns on the cross. It's a clear picture of redeeming the cursed mind. The enmity against God in us has been defused by the cross. The curse has been reversed. The casting out of demons is merely a precursor to the crown of thorns. It's all connected.

"If" these were spirits craving a host, why was there no evidence of them entering into anyone else after the pigs? Where did they go from there?

I believe there is a gateway in every one of us that is only accessible by our permission. But once we open it up, literally, all hell breaks loose in and through us. We affect our invisible surroundings without realizing we're doing it and even if we did realize it, because it was something that was triggered in our subconsciousness, our consciousness doesn't know how to control it, or lock it up again. It takes the power of the Spirit to realign us, which closes that passage once again.

Can I prove any of this? No. I'm not even all that sure-footed with it either. But it's simply what I see from where I am at "today". Is that helping?

10 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:47 pm

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
I agree Nathan, I too do not want to go back to the traditions and teachings of men. But there are scriptures we can't just throw out either, and need to be addressed right?

Such as the one I listed in Luke,

Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

How do we reconcile this one with what we have come to see?
I for one don't know.

These are also some that come to my mind too.

2Ch 18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
2Ch 18:19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

2Ch 18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:



Blessings






The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

11 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:54 am

cross-eyed

avatar
Yeah Sherryl, that was another one in my mind as well. I've been pondering this all night last night and I agree with you in that clearly it is something that you can't just bury and say it didn't exist because there are many instances in Scripture where it was acknowledged.

For me, I beleive it can all boil down to the one incident with Moses and the plagues. There were sorcerers there at the beginning that were able to "copy" the plagues to a certain extent before even they had to realize that Moses wasn't using their means to bring these plagues, but that it was God. There "is" an enablement man has to be able to manipulate the invisible elements to serve man's wants. But is it "demonic" activity?

It's been ingrained in us for so long that it is, that our minds really struggle at the thought of anything else. It's like Kevin mentioned, if it's not demonic, then what "did" cause the pigs to jump in a lake and drown?

The fact that Scripture purposefully stated that in the end, the guy was of a sound mind, that's a huge key for me that unlocks what the rest of this story was about. I believe we have greater abilities with our minds than most will ever realize.

I also think that the few that "have" tapped into the manipulations, are also either being falsely labeled, or are mislabling themselves as "spiritualists" or "mystics" or whathaveyou. They credit the spiritual side of it rather than realizing it's not as spiritual as they claim. But it's merely controling the atmosphere around them by manipulating the atoms and electrons . . .the tiny elements in the air invisible to the naked eye.

God is pretty adamant about his people staying clear of manipulating this arena without the leading of the spirit to do so. Perhaps it's because it's such a powerful force that if the carnality in us releases it, it's more destructive than constructive to us and those around us.

The tower of Babel incident comes to mind. God interveined because as he said, once a man SETS HIS MIND to something, there's no end to what he can do.

Genesis 11
And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

But again, I think Kevin asked the right question. I am one who beleives if someone disagrees with a thought, doctrine or decision, that same person should also have at least one other option to choose rather than just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. So "if" I don't think it's demonic, what "do" I think it is? What was it that caused an entire herd of pigs to all do the same thing?

It's clear that this guy had lost control of his mind. He never wore clothes, he lived in a graveyard and he had super-human strength . .. so long as he didn't have control of his mind. If "he" didn't have control over it . . who or what did? I believe it was the carnality in him that was in control over him.

Carnality isn't just a general term used for ungodliness. It's a force, it's an energy, it has a directive . .. it sets out to seek, kill and destroy. When given the opportunity, it "will" take full control of one's mind. It thrives in death . . .that's why the guy lived in the graveyard. It hates any form of constraint, that's why the guy was naked and could break out of any kind of bonds man tried to put on him.

All the while, this entire incident was not just happen-stance. Remember, this all started the moment Jesus told the disciples to get in the boat and they'll go to the other side and that was when they got out in the middle and the storm hit and Jesus was sleeping in the boat . . .that whole event was to get them over here where this wildman was. This was staged by Jesus himself. He already knew full well of where they were going.

Remember what his purpose was? It says nothing about casting out demons . . .it "does" say he's come to set captives free. Free from what? Carnality. Sin. What was it that drove the pigs into the lake? The force of carnality.



12 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:03 am

klm4jc


Good replies Nathan and Scherryl. I don't have a issue challenging the traditions of men and religion. I myself feel, and many here of already articulated, religion has at times done more to confine the truth than it has to be the instrument of it. However, as Scherryl points out with her examples of scriptures, we can't just avoid those verses that don't seem to fit into what I would describe as our new 'world view' as the revelation continues and our eyes are being opened, unless we begin to state that perhaps the bible is less than the 'the inspired word of God'. Does that mean that it contains no errors? Does that not come to us as a tradition as well?

If we only look at the symbolism of biblical things, did Christ really have a crown of thorns? I love the insight you gave about it representing the carnal mind but does it matter if He literally did or didn't have one? Perhaps that is off topic and should be it's own thread.

I can appreciate the answer you gave Nathan. When posing the question, in order for me to follow your line of thought, I was hoping for an answer that said something about effecting the sub-atomic atmosphere and altering the events of what most would consider reality. I could see how that could work at a physical, visible level.

So let me ask you guys this then, do you think that these 'spirits' then are some type of sub-atomic, energy based entity that is literally created as a result of our own carnal minds and that they can even exist outside of our own being once the passage way for their influence on us has been closed through the power of the Spirit?

13 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:21 am

cross-eyed

avatar
yeah, that's exactly what I was eluding to when I mentioned the "subconsiousness" in us connects with these "sub-atomic" elements and it unleashes all sorts of destructive manifestations. That chaos within that wild man's mind manifested in the pigs once realigned in the man. I think that's also why you don't see a demon being cast out of one person and jumping into another person near-by. It's not demonic as much as it is an inward misalignment of mind and spirit.

14 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:24 pm

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
Ok, So when the door is closed in us through Putting on the mind of Christ, it just lingers around outside???? until it finds a home in someone else???

It's not that I doubt this point of view, because I personally believe that the disciples in the boat is what caused the storm to make manifest in the first place, because of some confusion or debating, that might have been between them as they discussed what they had just been witnesses to.

In fact I have thought on the lines of, as we continue in calling forth the Kingdom in this earth to be made manifest, the more it's influence against those still in carnality.

Another words, it could very well be why earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes etc... are being made manifest, because of the conflict of the kingdom drawing nigh to a full manifestation. Does that make sense?

It's coming out of the people, that sense it's presence but don't understand why.




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

15 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:20 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

avatar
Admin
Time for my two cents????

Since we have been given the power of life and death, that we can give it through our words, this same concept applies to our thoughts, because our thoughts are just the speaking of the mind.

So with that being said, sin is carnality, if we give our ability to give life to something that is not supposed to have life, we sacrifice part of our own life force and give it to carnality, bringing it to life, thus the carnality that has life in it becomes a demon.

Now it can be cast out, and when it went into the pigs, it was the water that had an effect on the demons, not that they drowned, but it was at that point they ceased to exist because they were not meant to have life. In a sense, the water extinguished the flame.

The life went back to WHOM it belongs and it became just dead carnality again.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

16 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:07 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
Carnality ruled in the man and he became a beast. Living in the grave yard signifies he was enslaved by death. Nakedness signifies the exposed nature of his "self". No man could bind him . . .sinful nature in us can not be bound by our own human efforts . . . Then Jesus shows up and it reverses everything. Up to this point, it all seems to be going according to the pattern . . .but then . .. the pigs.

I wonder if it was a herd of sheep, if the "devils" would have been allowed to enter into them? I don't think it would because the symbolism between a pig and a sheep is quite a contrast. Men are like sheep. ungodliness is like a pig. So you have carnality entering ungodliness and the result is sudden death . . .to the carnality and ungodliness. But the man becomes clothed and in his right mind.

17 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:44 am

klm4jc


Okay, I get all that, and I don't necessarily dispute any of it, but how have we answered any of Scherryl's questions?








18 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:40 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
In all of our conversations, I'm not sure which unanswered question you're referring to, but I did pull up these two pasages on one of her later posts on this matter.

Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


Okay, to the first one, the first thing that comes to me is the nature of satan explained as a roaring lion . . .doing what?

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Sounds like the same pattern as the evil spirit that has no host . . .it wanders in dry places "searching". And remember in Job? God asks the devil what he's been up to and his answer? Roaming to and fro on the earth . . .it's all the same pattern.

By the spoken tongue . . .as Scherryl was eluding to, our words create habitat for darkness in our surroundings, in other people's personalities, even in mass gatherings. We create emotional storms in others that can very well also create literal storms, but proving that would be a whole other matter. But you "can" directly affect the health of a plant just by the words you speak to it . . "that" actually has been proven.

The second passage seems to fit this "carnal forces" perspective even more. Where does disobedience originate? Does it not come from within one's own mind? It's the offspring of a negative attitude, it's the manifestation of the emnity in us against Godliness. Flesh; carnality, evil forces of darkness; devils; demons . . .for me they're all one and the same. Our tones and words manipulate the literal micro-elements into either a postive force, or a negative one.

If anything, this line of thought is really making me take a closer look at how I speak. Regardless of what our eyes can see in the current state, our words are what change the outcome. Again, faith is seeing things as though they are. We get all caught up in what is, we don't look for what isn't.

19 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:54 pm

Guest


Guest
Scherryl reminded me this morning that I haven't been on the board for a while, and I've seen much in this thread to make me want to jump in there. For good or for evil, my mind is forming an image of these demons that is becoming much more finely detailed. It's not a graven image, mind you, but one drawn in sand, and I will joyfully watch Him erase it with one sweep of His hand and replace it with another. Even if it's cruder than the first! So I think this image be for the good. I saw the latest piece this morning talking to a friend.

klm4jc wrote:"We have been taught that God is omnipresent, there is no where you can go where He is not...

...I was hoping for an answer that said something about effecting the sub-atomic atmosphere and altering the events of what most would consider reality. I could see how that could work at a physical, visible level.

Yes! God is omnipresent, if that word really fits here. He is everywhere and His light radiates outward from everywhere. How would that look in the physical? Maybe we could imagine ourselves in a room filled evenly with a radioactive vapor and each atom of vapor radiates photons evenly in all directions. This model is admittedly crude in that there are a finite number of relatively large atoms in this "room" we've created and modeling God would be more like taking even more atoms and "homogenizing" them like milk so they really filled everything with no spaces in between and light is being evenly radiated everywhere, from everywhere.

Now let's say we're in the room too. You and me. We are absorbing that light. Some of the absorbed light carries its energy into the dis-eased areas within us and heals them, but there is no way we could ever use all of the irradiance incident upon us. Not at all. Like an overheating Chrysler, we have to radiate some of it off. I let you have some of "my" light, and vice verse. Now, I "think" that if we can't get rid of the light as fast as its coming in that at some point we will reach a critical threshold where it has to spontaneously "flash off," or, I think Todd mentioned something once about our flesh jumping up to a higher energy state. I can't prove any of this but I would love to witness it. Maybe it just takes one of us to go supernova, then his neighbor, then their neighbors and so on and so on...

These are all flights of fancy, but I do believe that the vision of demons the Lord has shown me is a useful working model. In other words, it bears fruit.

What if I were to enter into this room with you again, but this time I brought along some demons I possess. The one that I knew I was bringing was named Denial. I insisted he come along because I had a twinge of envy. After all, it is obvious you have already come so much farther than I in the ways of the Lord. Oh, yeah, so I guess it wasn't just Denial, I must have brought along Envy too. And were not a few of my Own Dreams present in the room with us? And Dis-satisfactions? Deceits? Revenge? Darkness? Pride? Haughtiness? Control? Contention? Quarreling? Criticism? Judgments? Narcissistism? Selfishness? Unbelief? Mockery? Fear? Torment? Dread? Hopelessness? Suspicion? Insecurity? Distrust? Loneliness? Shyness? Discouragement? Passivity? Insanity? Bitterness? Jealousy? Resentment? Anger? Hard-heartedness? Infirmity? Vices? Legalism, Occult? Works? How about Insanity? I don't know, but since I sensed a little dis-ease in you while I we were in the room I was thinking you may have seen something dark in me that I had overlooked.

OK, so there could be a lot of demons in the room with us and we don't even know it. We can't see them, but we can draw some conclusions pertaining to their form based upon our observations. What do we observe? One thing is it doesn't feel as warm in here as it could. Remember, I have brought Denial into the room and I have strategically placed him between us. Actually, since in my mess Denial is attached to Envy and as it turns out a host of others as well, I am placing a lot of something dark that causes me to become partly shaded from "your" light and prevents most of "my" light from reaching you. But this is inconsequential by comparison, because what we should be concerned with is that I am also using these demon nightshades to shield both of us from a part of God's light, but most of the shade falls on me since the demon is closest to me. This is an unintended consequence of the curtain I placed between you and me.

This curtain is burdensome. Can you feel it too? No? Well I can. That sounds about right since I am the one carrying it. I could, should, ought to, no. I will cast that burden on Jesus immediately. In fact, I'll throw it at Him and he will catch it from me. Ahhhhh...much better...

What is this now, penetrating and filling my entire being, healing and blessing all of the nations of the earth? Ah, it's LIGHT! More than I can handle and so much joy to be overloaded with!!!

Nobody asked, but I think I dream in color.

Scherryl wrote:
Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Many overlook this verse, notice the unclean spirit is seeking rest in "Dry Places"? Not where there is Water.
The Holy Spirit removed the comma between places and seeking for me when I read, and it makes a big difference.

But when he findeth none, he returns back to the house he left.

Could it be that "dry places" just illustrate the impossibility of life in these places? Where there is no water there is no spirit and we already know that the Sprit is everywhere. Since a demon is created and nurtured by it's carnal host it cannot exist anywhere else besides the playground of its host's imagination. Anyone can cast out a demon. It could be as simple as by not thinking but some might find it more practical to train their minds to think differently, holding every thought in captivity. Get rid of the bad thoughts. We can do that. Problem is, if the process is our own and we do not allow our new, saner mind to be filled by the Person of Christ, then we are in for bigger troubles than we were before. God will arrange it. Like Todd said, "He'll take you the easiest way you'll go."

cross-eyed wrote:It's not demonic as much as it is an inward misalignment of mind and spirit.

What Nathan said. Smile

20 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:03 am

klm4jc


This has been an awesome discussion folks. I loved it. I'm really okay with the thought that we create these demony thingies. I must give greater consideration to this to be sure. I appreciate everyone's input.

It's funny though...when David was sharing his example, I kept getting the picture of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory explaining something to Penny. It made me smile. You probably won't think it funny unless you watch the show.

I have more questions, but I think I will reread the thread before I state what they are, as they may have already been answered!

21 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:15 am

cross-eyed

avatar
So long as you keep throwing out those awesome questions!! Those are what opens the door to lead us into other amazing rooms in the Father's house. Very Happy

22 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:22 am

A.R.T.I.C

avatar
Admin
David, That was incredible!!!

And for me.......Right on the Mark.


Kevin,
I know what you mean about the Big Bang and Sheldon, your right it did sound like him. LOL

It was very thorough.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

23 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:27 pm

Guest


Guest
I think I know the character you're talking about and I think I should be embarrassed. Rolling Eyes Laughing

Ward and I were talking the other day and he mentioned demons and how he didn't know how to "call them out." This made me realize that having some names might be handy. For me, the monikers given to them by the greeks, romans or hebrews and the like probably wouldn't be as handy as simply knowing what they are. What are the names they would have been given by a modern english-speaking disciple? Remember, most of the writings about demons we see these days originated in a language other than english, and the names didn't get translated like the other nouns and verbs and such. No, they got capitalized, if contemporary traditions and superstitions hadn't "Capital-ized" the names already in the original text. That explanation does somewhat reek of innocence, though. The conspiracy theorist in me also wants to mention that it is so much easier for them to hide if their names sound to us like so much babel.

Turns out, they are legion. When I listed a bunch of rubbish that might go along with denial and envy, I was just copying a bunch of possibilities that I quickly found on the web. I hope the Lord was guiding me to the kind of stuff He would have me looking for. Obviously this didn't flow from my heart, it was an academic pursuit (albeit rushed) as I believe Kevin and Scherryl have already noted. It just seems handy to have a few names, so that these "guys" will have fewer places to hide. Like Nathan says, if you can name it you can own it.



Last edited by DavidHarreld on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : didn't like the grade that came back for punctuation)

24 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:53 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
I believe the identity of these ungodly traits come by revelation as well. Jesus wants to reveal something, he asks a question that opens the recipients mind up to receive what he wants to reveal, but it couldn't be revealed until the door was opened first . . .questions are doorways.

If the Father doesn't reveal what needs to be removed, I could be in danger of making matters worse by removing them based on my will alone. I can not, in and of my "self" realign "me" with the Father's truth. How can I align myself with something my mind doesn't have the capacity to comprehend?

It reminds me of this incident in Acts
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.


This sure sounds like more of a "spiritual" encounter than just atoms and electrons, yes?

Reminder of general rule . . .

KNOW the natural/literal word of God (1st dimension)
APPLY the moral word of God (2nd dimension)
PURSUE the Spiritual meaning of the word of God (3rd dimension)

Taking this passage for literal value would truly imply real demons. But as we've been touching on here and there through out this conversation, we can only see what the Father reveals. Anything beyond that is mere human observation.

I believe God IS revealing to us there's more beyond what has been taught in the church about this subject and that the misaligned teachings have done more to instill fear about demons than it has freedom from them.

It has been my contention that rather than make the claim a demon is an evil, invisible spirit from hell, controlled by satan himself (I refuse to capitalize the word even), I believe that what it actually is, is an extension of the carnality that governs this realm and also exists within every human being born into this realm.

And beings that the mind of man is the most powerful entity on this planet, the unexplainable activity that manifests which we've been told to credit it to demons, is actually the result of mental manipulation in one form or another.

How does this particular Scripture align with me? Are you ready for this?? It's in ONE WORD in this story . . .I have never looked this word up before until just now. I didn't look up a barrage of words and picking one out that would fit my theory. I was led to just this one word. "Sceva". The SEVEN (numbers should always be like a trumpet blast, alerting us to spiritual patterns in our midst) sons (offspring) of Sceva.

Sceva literally means MIND-READER. These guys were trying to manipulate a spiritual alignment in a man by using natural means . . .Carnality has a voice. It uses the host that it's in control of to speak "through". These were religious leaders . . .using religious authority to try to bring about spiritual alignment. And how did they leave?

They left in the same manner that Jesus found the guy in the graveyard with the legion . . .nakedness.

25 Re: Whats with them demons?? on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:58 pm

cross-eyed

avatar
Before I became a Pastor, I was tearing up the classes in the new ministry school our church had opened up. It was actually "for" people looking to go into ministry. I wasn't looking for any of that, I was just so hungry to go deeper, I was willing to pay the money and attend the classes for two years and graduate . . . funny thing is, there was one class I failed miserably at . . .it was the class that taught the creeds of the denomination. Ironic eh?

It was during this time that I also experienced "Cleansing Stream". I don't have time to elaborate just this minute, I just wanted to put something down eluding to it so I won't forget later to share out some of the details. This is more of a reminder to myself than anything. Smile

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 3]

Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum