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Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter)

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1 Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:56 pm

cross-eyed

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42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.

49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.


I wonder if the iron and clay here could also fit the political state of this nation that leads the world which right now is us. This last presidential election seems to have galvanized the nation more than it's solidified it.

But just as much as that's probably the first dimension of looking at it, the 2nd, being a corporate body perspective, is just as divided once you lay down the doctrines side-by-side.

In the last couple years, it feels like there's been first an emergence and now an increase in those who are being transformed to see God as one who redeems all men back to him rather than just a select few. Hell seems to be one of the mighty wedges that separate the two from coming together.

The really strong religious people are also the most adamant that hell is exactly what our forefathers have declared it to be. Again, what I share is merely from personal experience and after being a pastor for 9 years, my experience was, once my superiors learned about my perspective on hell, I got the inevitable phone call of correction and restriction of what I could and could not preach. So much for the "personal" relationship with Jesus they profess so much about.

Their tactics remind me of the characteristics of iron. They're hard, cold, calculated and once the ax starts to swing, they leave no room for compromise. you either duck or get cut off. There's no cleaving one to another . . .there's no personal commitment to your neighbors. It's either you come under my control or go to another church.

I truly believe we're in the day of iron and clay. Which in a bigger sense . . .is exciting because the stone is advancing. God truly has/is/continues to establish a kingdom that will be for infinity. It's in us. We just need to tap into the depths of ourselves, past the beastly nature and into the spirit where his spirit resides.

Past our minds, our reasoning, our logic, our limitations, our knowledge, our understanding . . .past all of it. That's why we can do nothing except by faith. We have to begin believing in what we can't see and start accepting what we don't understand. And that includes sharing what we've never heard another speak.

The spirit has been speaking in all of us, but our minds have put the message in check out of . . .fear. Fear that someone will reject us, shame us, correct us, stop us . . .but the message in us is infinite, it's continual . . it never sleeps.

It gets to the point to when the seed of life is planted in us, there isn't a birthing . . . there's an explosion because we've become like a wound up spring of life just waiting for the release of his glory and power . . .that's what the stone not cut by hands (works) of men does.

For those of you who've been playing on the "who's to blame" thread . . . hopefully you see the connection here. It began with Daniel actually. He did nothing to become enslaved. He was merely riding the bus. There was no attempt made to put the bus back on the track, it was too far gone. Israel had already ignored God's warnings and as a result, she went into bondage.

But the message with the bus was . . .we didn't do anything to find ourselves in the mud, so why would we think "doing something" would get us back out? Do we really think "we" have the power to remove ourselves from the mud? If we did, we wouldn't have found ourselves in it in the first place.

We have done nothing to become sinners. We were born into it. Men have created plans all with good intentions of course, to make us sinless again. They're just close enough to the truth to make it "appear" to be truth but all it really is, is the claim of salvation based on works.

Being saved isn't about avoiding hell. It's about being able to see the principles of the kingdom from where we are right NOW. That's where the abundant life is at. Free from condemnation of myself and others. Free from worrying about who did and who didn't make it. Free from judging others . . .it's not just life, it's ABUNDANT . . .it's joy unspeakable.

It's embracing the Father based on the motivation of love rather than on the fear of hell if you don't. It's entering into his Rest. Jesus stated "in this world (realm) you will have trials and tribulation. . ."

In this world, you will experience a deterioration of your identity. You'll start out as gold, but you'll finish as iron and clay. That's merely the effects of living in this realm. this is the realm of death and DECAY . . . but that's not where the verse ends.

BE OF GOOD CHEER . . . I'VE OVERCOME THE WORLD.

The rolling stone is approaching . . .restoration is coming and what God joins together . . .no man can tear down ever again. "That's" the focal point of the story!!

2 Will satan be redeemed also? on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:53 pm

cross-eyed

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46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.

49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.


I love this picture. Remember who Nebuchadnezzar is symbolizing here . . .the one who stands in the temple . . .check this out, see if it strikes a chord in you . .

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

The king of Egypt, Nebuchadnezzar "is" in me. The abominatin of desolation that stands in the temple . . .what? Know ye not that "you" are the temple? . . Let him that reads this see it with spiritual eyes. When you see you "SELF" standing in your temple, where your SELF does not belong . . .read this slowly because light bulbs are about to flash in your understanding here.

WHEN YOU ARE ENABLED TO SEE your SELF being OUT OF ALIGNMENT, that means that salvation has come to you. Whenever God shows you something that's out of alignment, it means he's about to realign it in you!! When he removes the veil, we see that it's been our SELF that's been STANDING in the temple when it SHOULD be in a position of SUBMISSION in the temple. It should be kneeling, it should be in humility.

But when it finally is revealed to you, you see the abominatin of desolation on the throne of your heart, flee to the mountains . . .the mountains? Why the mountains?

Daniel 2
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth

Jesus himself again is using Daniel's prophecy to tie all of this together.

I didn't plan on going there but it is what it is. The pattern is that we all have this in every one of us. We all have a king of carnality in us . . .and adversary . . .there are many names for it. None as popular as the title "SATAN". It literally means adversary

It was placed there way back in the garden .. .it's the serpent where God put enmity between the woman (mind) and the serpent (carnality). We call it our conscience, but it has many names. It's the "sense of knowing" in us when choosing right from wrong . . .the tree of knowledge. It's intended to be a safe-guard for us IN THIS REALM. But that's the part of us we need to let go of when walking in the spirit.

It's not a bad thing in and of itself, it just isn't equipped to discern spiritual truths. It's "aware" of the presence, but it can't identify with it. It's the part Paul talks about being at emnity with God. He uses the same language as Genesis does.

The beautiful thing in all of this is, this picture with Nebuchadnezzar falling on his face in worship . .. my face is my IDENTITY. Every time I see the word "face" used in Scripture, it always points to the identity of whoever the players are involved.

The identity of the carnality in me . . .the SATAN in me, the adversarial nature in me, is in awe at the Grace of God in my life. That's what I get from this passage in Daniel. In spite of the fact that Daniel had his ability to reproduce removed from him, God still produced his nature and transformed Nebuchadnezzar's identity.

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon

As a result of the transformation, Daniel was made a ruler. My spirit rules my flesh. It has always had the authority over my flesh, but until I became able to see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place within me, I was never able to exercise in that power. I was never able to "rule" over my flesh.

Does this make me perfect and never make any mistakes? Depends on what perspective you want to look from. In God's eyes, he doesn't see the shadows, He only sees the Son in me. It's that abomination of desolation in me that sees the failures, weaknesses and shortcomings.

Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.[/

A gate is a picture of authority as well. One can't enter into a city without first passing through it's gate. Jesus stated "he" is the gate. It's more than just an entrance, it's a right-of-passage. A right undeserved by us, but granted to us through our inheritance.

Isn't this way more fun to read than just the story itself? It's so rich with redemption and restoration, ya just want to burst out in song!!

3 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:04 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Yep, that's what I'm seeing too. In fact.......
I posted it in #20 Daniel 2. Wink

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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4 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:03 pm

LindaY


Is there a similarity here about Nebachadnezzar and Job? I was reflecting back on Job yesterday and it seems there is a very similar pattern in both of these books.

Isn't this way more fun to read than just the story itself? It's so rich with redemption and restoration, ya just want to burst out in song!!

Yes, for sure Nathan!

5 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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This is what I love about this forum and how God works in all of us, we may each get a part of an understanding and when we come together to discuss them we see the bigger picture.

Everything you explained Nathan makes sense.

What came to bold lettering in your first post were the words:
"start accepting what we don't understand", now with this .... I know exactly what you mean, but those who are blind to it would understand "start accepting that we will not understand" which limits our pursuit of understanding.

The second thing that became bold lettering in my mind was in your second post: "it's "aware" of the presence, but it can't identify with it" this I see in "they know of Christ but they can't identify with Him because of the lack of relationship"

I will say this much about your explanations, I agree with Scherryl in not summing it up, I like reading your comments for the reason, if it was summed up in one line or one paragraph, less things would come to mind that tie it all together in my own mind.

Don't change the gift He gave you to fulfill the desires of someone in this realm.

Many blessings
Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

6 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:45 pm

cross-eyed

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Scherryl wrote:Yep, that's what I'm seeing too. In fact.......
I posted it in #20 Daniel 2. Wink

Blessings

Oh my Gosh Scherryl You did!! It didn't even click until I reread it just now!! Why didn't I see that the first time you wrote it!! That's just too awesome!!

7 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:53 pm

cross-eyed

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jugghead wrote:This is what I love about this forum and how God works in all of us, we may each get a part of an understanding and when we come together to discuss them we see the bigger picture.

Everything you explained Nathan makes sense.

What came to bold lettering in your first post were the words:
"start accepting what we don't understand", now with this .... I know exactly what you mean, but those who are blind to it would understand "start accepting that we will not understand" which limits our pursuit of understanding.

The second thing that became bold lettering in my mind was in your second post: "it's "aware" of the presence, but it can't identify with it" this I see in "they know of Christ but they can't identify with Him because of the lack of relationship"

I will say this much about your explanations, I agree with Scherryl in not summing it up, I like reading your comments for the reason, if it was summed up in one line or one paragraph, less things would come to mind that tie it all together in my own mind.

Don't change the gift He gave you to fulfill the desires of someone in this realm.

Many blessings
Jugg

Amen to all of that Jugg. I'm so glad God is doing this in us, to us . . with us . . .I'm just glad to be here!!!

As to not being able to identify . . .I think it's also like how the Pharisees . .the super religious identified with Christ . . .they didn't. They identified with "their image" of Christ . .which is the pattern we're seeing here with the statue . . .they have a relationship, with the image, but there's no intimacy their . . .a true relationship with THE Christ means we'll reproduce after His kind . . .

From the words of our mouths should come life not death, praises not curses. And the first thing the church does with that statement is they try to mimic the actions rather than manifest the transformation.

It's actually impossible to live for Jesus. He never asked us to do that. What he wants is for us to LET HIM live IN US. Now "that" . . .I can do!!

8 Re: Daniel 2:42 - - - (end of chapter) on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:57 pm

cross-eyed

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LindaY wrote:Is there a similarity here about Nebachadnezzar and Job? I was reflecting back on Job yesterday and it seems there is a very similar pattern in both of these books.

Isn't this way more fun to read than just the story itself? It's so rich with redemption and restoration, ya just want to burst out in song!!

Yes, for sure Nathan!

Without knowing for sure what you're referrign to, I'd still answer this with a yes because the message is very repetative, the actors may change as the circumstances also change, but the end result is the same. When God shows up redemption just happens.

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