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26 Lets play!! on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:59 am

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When we revelate like this, we have to be sure of what dimension we're revelating "in" so we understand where others are coming from. Is it 1st, (all things natural) 2nd (corporate body) or 3rd (everything "inward)

I'm a strong supporter of the idea that when we deal with prophecies, we look at it as what was written was intended to be fulfilled for those to whom it was specifically written "to". Same as Revelation, the book, same as every other prophecy of Scripture. That's first dimension for me. The prophecy LITERALLY HAPPENED to those to whom it was literally written to. To have it apply to "us", we have to go dimensional with it.

Having said that, I personally think "this" picture of the statue may just reach in the venue of our era anyway. It's literally depicting nations that are world leaders, starting with Egypt and Nebuchadnezzar as each one of them directly affect the state of Israel.

There are multiple things to look at and you guys have already touched on one of them, and that's the elements that make up the statue. The second thing to notice is the DESCENDING ORDER in which it's described. Gold is at the top, then silver, then brass, then iron then the mixture of iron and clay. Fundamentally, a structure supported on that mixture could never sustain itself anyway. . .but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

We've been given a plumb-line to measure by that needs to be understood as well. Seeing this is a message that God is sending, I'm sure you can see that God wouldn't send a message like this without already sending the template that is needed to "decode" the message as well and Scripture tells us in Hebrews of how the tabernacle of Moses was the grand-daddy of all types and shadows. So it's from there that I am comparing these elements to.

First is the gold. It's the most valuable, even though, we have other stones that may be of greater value when you measure their weights, like, for instance, if someone offered you a pound of gold, or a 1 lb. cut diamond, which do you supposed would have the greatest value? I think the diamond would win by far.

But again, God's ways aren't ours. Gold has always been the highest ranking in kingdom principles. It's one of the softest elements, it melts down easily, it can be molded into whatever shape the potter wishes. They say the purest gold is not what you see in the movies where it's these yellow gold bars or a sparkling yellow vein in a cave, but instead it's actually transparent.

This is going to take some time to write out . . .but as a parting thought, the value of these metals show a descent in value. From gold to silver to brass to iron . . .it's a deterioration of order.

27 Re: Daniel 2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:02 pm

cross-eyed

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30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

I just wanted to reach back for a second before moving forward, and point out that Daniel is saying exactly what I shared in the last post. This particular vision is aimed at the people who fall under each element in this statue. It's a timeline.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.


a kingdom, power, strength and glory . . .that's what gold represents IN US. It's the best of the best of who we are in Christ. Interesting thing about God is, there's no "one" word, phrase, sentence, or thesis that defines Him and in the same way, we are created in that same pattern. We are gold being refined and in us the whole time is a kingdom, power, strength and glory. We're just being melted down to allow the dredge to make it's way to the surface to be removed from our nature all together. But I'm jumping dimensions in saying that.

1st dimension shows that Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold. We know through another story about Daniel what nation is waiting on the wings to be the next world leader and that's the Persians, they are the silver. The bronze, or brass would be Greece. The iron is the Roman empire. And the clay mixed with iron . . .who is became the world leader after Rome? There really has been no dominant force since Rome fell until the Americas were established.

We've been on the winning side of every world war, thus the hardness of iron. But our principles have been deteriorating to the point to where it's become a nation serving it's self-indulgences. A nation of flesh and war. Clay and iron.

Now, shifting gears a bit . . .lets take a GLANCE at the 2nd dimension. I'm only passing through this because for one, it's only "my" perspective which in this particular room, there's much that I just don't know for sure. But the other reason is because again, the call for us is to walk in the spirit, in the Father's house that Christ personally prepared the rooms for us to dwell in . . .that's a spiritual place and it calls to me and I long for it as well.

2nd dimension is aligning this with the church. It began in the garden . . .gold . .and God saw that it was GOOD. It moved to Abraham where the promise was first given. Redemption was in that covenant that God had with Abraham as he slaughtered the animals and walked down the blood line with God between the carcasses on each side.

The bronze came with Moses. Bronze/brass by the way is a symbol of judgment. The altar of sacrifice was made of bronze, as was the laver, it was overlaid with the polished BRASS looking glass of all the women . . . the laver was overlaid with the reflection of the souls of man. The "eyes" are the windows to the soul, it consisted of melted down "looking glasses".

The law brought judgement on the nation. It couldn't redeem them, only point out the fact that they were out of alignment. It ruled the nation with a heavy fist of forced obedience. That wasn't it's purpose, but that's how it was applied.

Then the iron. The iron for me came when Jesus came into the picture. Or should I say, the iron of the church became apparent when Jesus showed up. It was religion in it's prime. The hardness of the religious leaders was so great that it motivated them to murder Jesus.

And now, again, the clay mixed with iron. A lot of flesh is in the church coinciding with the hardness of religion. Actually, now that I've written this out, it seems to be coming together for me a little better than I originally thought.

Now . . .3rd dimension . . .taking this "inwardly".

I'm not sure I can apply the same logic here as with the previous two dimensions in the dividing up of each element "within" my nature. I believe "I AM" a combination of the gold, silver, bronze, iron and clay all blended together. In me there is power, glory, a kingdom and strength which makes up the gold, and in me there is redemption and hopefully others sense some redemptiveness in my relationship with them.

In me there is judgement, both good and bad. I pray my judgment on others is the same judgment God passed on me, and that is the judgment of love. There is iron, again, both good and bad in the sense that I hold to what I believe without wavering, that's the good. The bad would be those times I cater to the bullheadedness that I tend to display when I'm not feeling all that spiritual.

Then there's the clay . . .which has a good and bad with it as well. The good is, no longer do I have a heart of stone, but God has softened it to that of a heart of clay with his grace in my life. The bad is the obvious, the fleshy side of me that will always be there as long as my spirit resides in this body of flesh. Flesh tempts flesh. The things of this world lure and entice my fleshly desires. Some aren't threatening, others . . .not so much.

So all of these elements are at work "in" me, but I'm not sure they can be segregated as they are in the other two dimensions. Which only stands to reason . . .the 3rd dimension is the spiritual and as I've said over and over again, once you enter into the spiritual realm, you can't use the same set of standards that you use in the natural realm, so once again . . . it all fits.



Last edited by cross-eyed on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

28 Re: Daniel 2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:04 pm

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Ok, why did I not see the Tabernacle in this Image????
Of course......

We all know what happens to ole Nebby in the end, but if you don't then I won't spoil it for you.

But, The Tabernacle is a perfect picture of Jesus Christ is it not? I knew that all of this was fulfilled in Him somehow.

Because He came for that purpose, to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, and they all prophesied until John.

Nathan as you were explaining seeing yourself in these elements, for me it clicked. I was seeing Jesus Christ as He was when He walked out His ministry, and now He is the ONLY way that men will know That God rules all kingdoms in this earth the same as Nebby came to understand.

Since all these things abides in Him, and He in us...then each one of these elements works in us to bring us "up to The Head which is Christ/Gold.

He must break us down, then build us back up again but through His Son. So Nebby is a picture of us as we think we are all that, until Christ The chief corner stone comes in, and starts to rebuild us. And therefore we can say with Paul until we all grow up into The Head Which is Christ. Or, till Christ be formed in us. I see it as a progression of ascension to Gold through the Working whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself.

Yep, I happy with that, again thank you for sharing these things with us.

God Bless you Nathan




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29 Re: Daniel 2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:57 pm

cross-eyed

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You are absolutely right . . . he must tear down what "we've" erected in order for him to build his church in us. And that leads to the most exciting part of this whole thing. The very reason why God led Daniel into this land of bondage, so that through "God is my judge" God can reveal his sovereign plan to a man who wasn't even in a relationship with God to begin with, yet here in this vision, the first thing that Daniel hears is God calling Nebuchadnezzar golden.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

When you look at this as a timeline, it explains why the stone was directed toward the feet. If it struck anywhere else, it would have interrupted the process of the deterioration. It has been assumed that the feet here indicate the "walk" of someone, or the path. Would you believe me if I told you the rock didn't "smite" the feet? Would you believe me if I told you Scripture doesn't say that it strikes the feet?

Yeah, I know you just read it, but read it again . ..slower. It doesn't say it struck it's feet . . .it says it struck THE IMAGE on it's feet. The image? What image do you suppose it's referring to?

I don't know if this was my blindness or God's divineness But we skimmed right over this verse . . .

Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible.

It's the same word used here as was used for the image on the feet. It's definition? It means IDOL. This entire statue is an idol. Keep in mind, this whole time what Nebuchadnezzar represents here . . .he "is" carnality. And one of the main attributes of carnality is "idolizing" everything. The idol has an idol on it's foot. But it's not about the attributes of a foot. It's about "who" is being the world leader at that time. What is their identity?

Anyone here read my book yet? Know what it's generally about? Idols in the church. The House of Resurrection is the tearing down of the old and rebuilding of the new church of Christ. The feet are a world of division. Trying to mix spiritual truth with natural reasoning. It results in religious, idol worship. People who worship their own IMAGE of God rather than worship a God not shaped by the hands of men.

Don't know about you guys . . .but this is a pretty powerful thing. It's hitting pretty close to home.

30 Re: Daniel 2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:18 pm

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All I can see right now, is "Every knee will bow, and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to The Glory of the Father.

This is sounding pretty similar to the other story about a god that was brought down too. Remember Dagon the fish god?

Every time they would go in and set it back up again in the presence of The Ark of The Covenant, they would come back and it would be bowed down to The One and Only True God. Very Happy

1Sa 5:2 When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.
1Sa 5:3 And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the LORD. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.
1Sa 5:4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.
1Sa 5:5 Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.




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31 Re: Daniel 2 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:09 pm

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It all makes sense to me in what you have explained and would not what I posted be the timeline of mankind?

And the picture I got in my head about the stone not hitting the feet was the story of David and Goliath.

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

32 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:15 am

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Scherryl wrote:The Revelation of Jesus Christ will always shut the mouths of Lions.




Had to borrow your stamp for that one, Sis!

All power is in the name of Jesus. For us to know His name (His nature, character and authority) He first will have had to reveal Himself in us.

33 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 am

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Amen, Amen, Amen.......David, it is What the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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34 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:44 am

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cross-eyed wrote:People who worship their own IMAGE of God rather than worship a God not shaped by the hands of men.

I was talking with my friend Ward yesterday and he had an interesting insight. He noted that if we had all the money we needed we would be caught up in so many projects that we wouldn't be asking all of these questions. As uncomfortable as this place is, I would still choose it if the choice were mine.

35 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:52 am

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Ok, I have to ask this question David.... Why?

Why would you choose to be in a place of Despair, Darkness, and Death, instead of Life, Light, and Love?




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36 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:40 am

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Scherryl wrote:Ok, I have to ask this question David.... Why?

Why would you choose to be in a place of Despair, Darkness, and Death, instead of Life, Light, and Love?


That's quite a question! If I have chosen darkness over light then it is done by some insidious spirit, for I have not noticed either choice offered to me. I think I choose Life, Light and Love because where else have I to go? Yet I see life wholly unfulfilled in this realm. Can this all change tomorrow? Maybe. Now? YES!!! I know this. I've known that for a long time, actually...

37 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:13 pm

LindaY


Great posts Scherryl and David! I choose life, love and light. Maybe someone put something in the koolaid here in the south? Shocked Smile

38 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:08 pm

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DavidHarreld wrote:
Scherryl wrote:Ok, I have to ask this question David.... Why?

Why would you choose to be in a place of Despair, Darkness, and Death, instead of Life, Light, and Love?


That's quite a question! If I have chosen darkness over light then it is done by some insidious spirit, for I have not noticed either choice offered to me. I think I choose Life, Light and Love because where else have I to go? Yet I see life wholly unfulfilled in this realm. Can this all change tomorrow? Maybe. Now? YES!!! I know this. I've known that for a long time, actually...

David,
The question was to show you, that we had no choice as to being made subject/to bow down to the Vanity and Darkness of this World when we were born.

If I was to put only ONE object before you, and said choose, what could you do? There is no choice, but now that Christ has come and done what He has done, with every little new thing, new thought, new way of seeing something, .... He now gives us choices, can you see that?

He gives us His Faith that is a part of His Spirit to lead us into Righteous choices. No longer do we have to settle for what is put before us by the world, "not" if we choose to believe in what He has shown us, inspite of the things we see happening around us. To me this is the ONLY, or the answer to the Freewill dilemma. You can choose to give in to the spirit of despair/darkness that you "once" was a part of, or let the things that The Lord has shown you to lead you into more.

So the bottom line is, you have been given a choice David and you have also been given faith to move in it.
This is Submitting to Him, and watching the enemy flee.

In fact, we have been given all things, that pertain to life and Godliness.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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39 Re: Daniel 2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:40 pm

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Scherryl touched on something that was brought to my mind this morning about free will.

I will not say I am right, but with all things considered in what I understand up to this point, it makes sense to me.

As Scherryl said, we had no choice to be born into this world, that was a choice that God made for us.

When we come to understand that this is the place of darkness (even of our own ignorance), when it comes to free will, it is not a matter of saying or understanding that we can do whatever we want in the place of darkness, but we have been given the free will to choose to walk out of that darkness and this is a lifelong process.

It is not a one time event in our lives, we have to continue to walk from one room to another and each one has more light in it than the last one, and God chooses to lead us from one to another and we can choose to remain where we are or follow Him.

I see our own free will as a gift to be used to increase in our understanding, not forsaking anything or tossing anything aside, for it is coming to understand all things in the best of our ability "to choose" that we continue on our journey of understanding, our journey "of" and "with" life.

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

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