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Daniel 1:6-14

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1 Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:29 am

cross-eyed

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6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.

11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,

12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.

Okay . . . what are you seeing?

2 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:17 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Ok, I've been waiting for this.

First of all, I see everything without trying to feed us what they want us to become, but....Since there is The Favor of The Lord upon these, they know this.

What did they eat?

Pulse:

From H2232; something sown (only in the plural), that is, a vegetable (as food): - pulse.

2232

zaw-rah'
A primitive root; to sow; figuratively to disseminate, plant, fructify: - bear, conceive seed, set with, sow (-er), yield.

And Water to Drink

The Living Waters, I see them eating and drinking of The body of Christ, this is Communion.

The same as Isaac did when he was blind to the things around him, he chose Jacob instead of Esau, not because of deception, but because of "What he ate and drank", which causes us to see by faith and "NOT" by sight, not by the flesh but by The Spirit.
This gives direction and discernment of the Will of God.

The Ten days, to me speaks of this:

Rev_2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

This signifies the Death that we partake of, as we sow, the enemy will come against us to destroy the Seed.

These sons of God held on to The Seed and was faithful unto their Death.

Hope that makes sense as to what I am seeing. Again it's about laying our lives down for The Purpose of God to be carried out in and through us.

Blessings





The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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3 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:22 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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cross-eyed wrote:6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.

11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,

12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.

Okay . . . what are you seeing?

I don't want to comment on the proceedings at this time, but what I would like to ask is, are we seeing three different people here?

What I mean by that is:
Verse 3 "master of the eunuchs"
Verse 7 "prince of the eunuchs"
Verse 11 Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel

Are we seeing a chain of command?

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

4 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:36 am

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jugghead wrote:
cross-eyed wrote:6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.

11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,

12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.

Okay . . . what are you seeing?

I don't want to comment on the proceedings at this time, but what I would like to ask is, are we seeing three different people here?

What I mean by that is:
Verse 3 "master of the eunuchs"
Verse 7 "prince of the eunuchs"
Verse 11 Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel

Are we seeing a chain of command?

Jugg

You mean, like the King of Tyrus and The Prince of Tyre?
I believe so, since this is a Trying time for them, as they are partaking of The Seed.

Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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5 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:46 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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The reason I ask is, in verses 9 and 10, I see this as Daniel thinking back upon his relationship with "the prince of the eunuchs" and it is because of this relationship he has with the second in command that determined what he said to Melzar, whom I see as the third in command.

It is like seeing that our own spirit can be held prisoner by our mind and our heart when they are of the flesh.

Melzar represents our spirit of flesh, afraid of losing his head

The "prince" being our heart and the "master" being our mind, and of course this is all in the context of what happens before we eat of what is sown. Are we consuming the "meat of the world" or the "vegetables of Christ"?

Jugg

Saw a mistake, the "prince" was afraid of losing his head, not Melzar, but again that is if they are three different eunuchs.



Last edited by jugghead on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction and added comment)



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

6 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:15 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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No doubt these rulers represents what you are saying, "The enemy within".

The Adam nature/head, must go though, because Christ is our Head. So yeah I can see what your saying. It's the same thing I'm seeing too, it's just a matter of wording I think.

The only thing that throws me a little is this verse here:

9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

But...considering what we talked about the other night with Lucifer and God's Compassion???? I don't know.

But I did find this also:

Eze 31:15 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

I don't want to get to side tracked but I find this very interesting wording here. Especially if the epithet is of Adam.




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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7 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:25 pm

cross-eyed

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That might be the King James confusing things a bit . . .but it does appear that there may be two separate people in this.

Here's the Message, I'll highlight the parts in question.

3-5 The king told Ashpenaz, head of the palace staff, to get some Israelites from the royal family and nobility—young men who were healthy and handsome, intelligent and well-educated, good prospects for leadership positions in the government, perfect specimens!—and indoctrinate them in the Babylonian language and the lore of magic and fortunetelling. The king then ordered that they be served from the same menu as the royal table—the best food, the finest wine. After three years of training they would be given positions in the king’s court.

6-7 Four young men from Judah—Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah—were among those selected. The head of the palace staff gave them Babylonian names: Daniel was named Belteshazzar, Hananiah was named Shadrach, Mishael was named Meshach, Azariah was named Abednego.

8-10 But Daniel determined that he would not defile himself by eating the king’s food or drinking his wine, so he asked the head of the palace staff to exempt him from the royal diet. The head of the palace staff, by God’s grace, liked Daniel, but he warned him, “I’m afraid of what my master the king will do. He is the one who assigned this diet and if he sees that you are not as healthy as the rest, he’ll have my head!”

11-13 But Daniel appealed to a steward who had been assigned by the head of the palace staff to be in charge of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: “Try us out for ten days on a simple diet of vegetables and water. Then compare us with the young men who eat from the royal menu. Make your decision on the basis of what you see.”

There does appear to be a chain of command of sorts that Daniel appealed to. The steward assigned to Daniel, his boss was the head of the palace staff and "his" boss was the king.

Keeping in the flow of seeing this in dimensions or spiritually . . . in this realm, there is a distinct order to things. You throw a rock up, the law of gravity takes over and the rock falls back down. You enter into a room, you have to open a door. You want to be smart, you have to study hard . . .there's an order to everything.

There's also an order in the spirit, but the difference is, in this realm, you have to labor your way through to remain in it, in the spirit, it's all a finished work. You enter in and "become" what already "is". No labor required. In fact, just the opposite . . .it requires "rest".

8 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:29 pm

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Note the embedded pattern . . .it's in threes . . .the king, the head of the palace staff and the steward.

I think these sign-posts are mere reminders as we go through the story to keep our focus on the fact that this is a process leading to a resurrection . . .and ascension. It's like God is reassuring us as we go through this process of Daniel's fire that it's leading to something miraculous.

9 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:50 pm

cross-eyed

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6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.


Daniel = God is my judge - Belteshazzar = Lord of straighten's treasure
Hananiah = God has favored - Shadrach = the great scribe
Mishael = who is what God is - Meshach = guest of a king
Azariah =Jehovah has helped - Abednego = servant of Nebo

Is it me, or does there appear to be a decentragation here? It goes from being a Lord, to a scribe, to a guest, to a servant. Hmmm . . .

Kind of like our human nature all over again. We always start out with great intentions, but due to the nature of man, selfish at best, where we end is never where we intended to be when we began. It gets weaker and weaker.

10 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:56 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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cross-eyed wrote:6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.


Daniel = God is my judge - Belteshazzar = Lord of straighten's treasure
Hananiah = God has favored - Shadrach = the great scribe
Mishael = who is what God is - Meshach = guest of a king
Azariah =Jehovah has helped - Abednego = servant of Nebo

Is it me, or does there appear to be a decentragation here? It goes from being a Lord, to a scribe, to a guest, to a servant. Hmmm . . .

Kind of like our human nature all over again. We always start out with great intentions, but due to the nature of man, selfish at best, where we end is never where we intended to be when we began. It gets weaker and weaker.

Where did you find those definitions for their new names, I have looked and all I could find was:

Balat-su-usur = protect thou (O Bel) his life.
Sudur-Aku (= command of Aku, the moon-god).
Perhaps Misha-Aku = who is as Aku?
Abed-nego = servant or worshipper of Nego.

When I was looking at these, I was seeing how this is what the nature of man wants to hold on to, or how the enemy wants us to, but.....
Daniel and his companions never fell into this pattern because of the Favor of God, they retained their Nature they had to begin with.

Which to me is a perfect pattern of the Tabernacle as we progress.

Now I admit there are those today that has gave into the name/nature of the latter, that's why we have such a variety of doctrines and traditions today in the church's/confusion/divisions.
And I think it's worth seeing how the Traducer works, but again, this was "not" these 4. Remember these were of The Seed Royal, "The" King's Seed, These were Over-comers.

Then again I could be misunderstanding you. Smile




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11 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:26 pm

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Ah, but the key is . . .who is renaming them? Originally all of their names were in connection to God in one way or another, but because of the fulfillment of the prophecy we saw when we first started, these guys are now being exposed to a kingdom against their choosing. They, themselves did nothing to become in bondage. It's because of their heritage, they were "born" into it. Same as all of us, we did nothing to become sinners, we were born into it due to the choices of Adam.

Everything they do is a result of their relationship with God. Out of that love for God is a hunger to serve him. Regardless of what is thrown at them, regardless of their names being changed by ungodly men, what they have is not anything another man can change or alter. They've had that personal touch of the Father's hand upon their heart.

The descending order of strength in the new names they were given was not because that's what their new natures were, it's because that's the status of how carnality works. It weakens as it goes. It gives the impression it's getting stronger, but those who have eyes that see, know that anything carnal is also temporal. Man may change your name, but only God can change your identity.

Oh, and I got the definitions out of "Blue Letter Bible" concordance.

We're not quite at the verse yet, but we're close enough I want to put this down before I forget it. Dave was talking on another thread about taking out his king of Egypt due to the unsatisfaction he has in the way things in his life have been operating lately.

I want to put this as tender as I possibly can without creating any reservation in anyone. Part of me sees this king as the old man in me . . .but I run into a bit of a wall with that because the old man in me is what dies and resurrects with this new heart within me. However, carnality still is around and in me as well. So things get kind of muddy there a bit for me.

But at the same time, if this king is my mind, it never dies, it never sleeps, it's continual and it's carnal as well. As long as my spirit is in this body, my mind is engaged. But what jumps out at me is what Daniel chooses to eat. Scheryyl, that was quite a profound observation you shared about Daniel only eating things that WERE PLANTED.

How does that cross over? Doesn't Paul tell us to fill our minds with heavenly thoughts? For me, that's feasting on the banquetting table that the Father has prepared for those walking in his kingdom. Heavenly thoughts are the things planted in you, that germinate in you, sprout from you, produce fruit out of you and as you share God's goodness, I partake from . . .what . . . .was . . .planted. That gives me goose bumps!!

The kings meat is human logic and reasoning. You may get smart, but only in things pertaining to this realm, and even though we live in this realm, we aren't called to walk in it, we're called to walk in the spirit. As you well know, natural knowledge and spiritual knowledge are two completely different venues.

Spiritual knowledge gives you natural wisdom, to be sure. But natural knowledge doesn't give you spiritual understanding at all. In fact, it can work against you. Once a platform of knowledge is built in you, it's only through God's grace that it can be tore down and rebuilt by the master carpenter himself . . .in us.

God is doing all of this in Daniel to show the nation of Egypt that he is real, alive, all powerful, and honors those he loves.

12 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:51 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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There is only one thing I can add to all this and it is:

THIS IS GETTING GOOD

Keep it coming people, I drink it in as if I have been without water for some time, I eat it as if I never knew what real food tasted like.

The kingdom is at hand

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

13 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:00 am

cross-eyed

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By the way, I found that song I referred to earlier, it's called "You Are Faithful" and I've posted it in the poems and music thread with all the other songs I've posted there in case you're interested in seeing that line in context.

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs


So the sons of God here have been renamed by those who now have them in bondage. Again, it really is powerful to me to realize that Daniel did nothing to cause these events to happen to him, it was merely because he was an Israelite that he was carried off to Babylon and forced to become a eunuch to the king of Egypt. Even in this terrible time of chaos, fear and bondage for Israel, God's love for her never changed. He would lead her through this disciplinary time and she'd be stronger for it, and he'd receive the glory of those aware of his handi-work.

But the process here is very telling as well. Carnality has renamed it's enemy. Ever have people that you're "trying" to plant seeds in try to "peg" you? If they can identify you, they can control you. A person's name is their identity. Even today when you sign your name to something, what is so important about signing your name? If it's just to see the patterns of your hand-writing, you could use "any" word, but it's not any word that makes the bond, it's your "signature".

Your signature is your "signed" "nature". It's your identity. When people "peg" you, they're attempting to change your identity as an individual and pool you together in a "group" of people they've already disregarded. I've been told I'm a "universalist" which I'm not totally offended at, but when they say the word "universalist" they've spoken it with disdain, like it's a plague.

There are two problems with this, one is, their perspective of what a universalist is, is skewed. From my personal experience, they're take is that I beleive there are many roads that lead to heaven, you can believe in, and worship Buddah and still go to heaven. Just because I believe Jesus redeemed THE WHOLE WORLD back to the Father through the cross, not just those who say the magic words of repentance, doesn't mean I agree with worshiping other gods.

But to try to explain any of this to a traditional believer is almost impossible because it sets off other land mines in their theologies. It becomes a warring session rather than a planting season. And it's very difficult to war with anyone once your weapons have been transformed into plowshares if you get my drift.

And two, even though I do find myself leaning more toward a universal idealism, I personally don't see myself as a converted universalist. If we are considered a peculiar people . . .a unique creation, how can we just accept that we're all of the same shape, size, form and belief as everyone else? I think we're "supposed" to have different views, because we all are at different places of relationship with God.

Even with the 12 disciples, Jesus revealed things to a few and not to the whole 12. What makes us whole is we come to places where we lay the differences down and let his Love bond us together as "one". That was his prayer for us all along, that we be one with Christ as Christ is one with the Father.

But again, I digress . . .the key here is to see the pattern of how carnality/logic/reasoning works. If it can peg you, it can control you. If it can group you into an identity that it can manipulate you for it's own benefit. As an example, it was only a little while ago that man finally identified what electricity was. Once we figured out what it was, we found ways to use it to our advantage.

That's not a bad thing, it's just how this realm operates. It's the same here with Egypt. We're not looking for what's good or bad, what we're looking for is how it operates IN US. Once "we" identify "that" then we can over come it much easier than just struggling blindly with day-to-day problems and weaknesses. We're overcomers, yes? Well, how can we overcome what we haven't been able to identify?

That's what seeing dimensionally is all about. it's not just to get all giddy over how deep things are. That comes with the ride, for sure, but there's a purpose for all of this. The more we see the signposts pointing to the footprints of Christ who's gone on before us, the more we will look "for him" without paying so much attention to whether or not we take the right step. Make any sense?

So for me, that's what God is doing here with Daniel and the king of Egypt. He's showing us "how" Egypt operates and he shows us how "he" has already made a path through Egypt's operations and not be harmed by Egypt's pitfalls in our own lives. Every story in Scripture paints this same picture when you look for the dimensions that lie beneath the surface of what's written.

But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself

Eating the kings meat isn't the problem . . .eating the meat of the king OF EGYPT is. It's like what the children of Israel went through in their own wilderness. It wasn't enough for them to live off what the earth had to offer. If they were going to get through this birthing process (40 years) then they were going to need a special diet to sustain them. Eating flesh won't cut it.

I just went out with my family last night and had my favorite dish . . .prime rib. I LOVE prime rib!! It's expensive so I don't get to have it very often. But last night, I had a plan. I have two 8-year old boys. Usually we order off the kids menu for them, but, for me to justify getting my prime rib, I decided it'd be cheaper to order the larger cut and share it with the boys rather than have them order from the kids menu. Much to my shock, neither one of them was all that excited over the prime rib.

As good as the meat is, it's not the most healthy thing for your body. It doesn't hurt to add meat to your diet, but if that's all you primarily eat, your body will start showing signs of fatigue or even sickness because you're not giving your body the right nutrients it would get if you were a vegetarian. I seriously doubt I'll ever come close to giving up my meats, but I can clearly see the arguments "for" being a vegatarian. God uses the natural to reveal spiritual truths. Spiritually, we NEED to be vegetarians. Eating only things that were planted . . .I love that. Scherryl, that one really stuck with me.

But here in these verses, eating the kings meat and drinking the kings wine would "defile" Daniel. It's the spiritual pattern here that matters most. Now that we've established "who" this king of Egypt is in us, it's much clearer as to why eating and drinking the king's meat and wine would defile us. There is another meat and another wine with which "we" as sons of God are to feast upon, yes?

The number 10 here is also something we should touch on as well. There is ALWAYS a reason why a specific number is being identified. It wasn't 9 days or 11 days . . .it was 10 days. In ten days it would become clear that eating things planted would have a much different manifestation than eating from the kings table.

What does the number "ten" represent? For me, it is "law", due to the fact that the tabernacle, which is the grand-daddy of God's patterns and principles (as Todd would say) is based on the ten commandments. But just because it represents law, doesn't mean that it's a negative. Jesus had laws of his own. In fact the 10 laws of Moses are condensed down into the 2 laws of Jesus.

The first five commandments dealt with man's relationship to God, the second five dealt with man's relationship to man. And the two laws of Jesus? Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Same pattern. What Daniel's ten days here is pointing to for me is life and strength manifesting as a result from eating that which has been planted in us . . .that's a law of God. Eat his manna and you will thrive in his kingdom.

14 Re: Daniel 1:6-14 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:46 pm

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9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs

Even though it's clear Daniel himself did nothing to cause Egypt to overtake Jerusalem and carry off it's men of knowledge and wisdom to Babylonian captivity, he was there nonetheless. And what's even clearer is, God was with him the entire time and was orchestrating the entire thing. it was God that caused the chief of the palace to not just approve of Daniel, but to have a bond with him.

Gee . . .what a coincidence! How "lucky" for Daniel, eh? Hardly. Ever wonder if Daniel thought these were mere coincidences?

These men whose loins no longer could reproduce or release the seed of life through their loins were about to play a huge role in God's plan to reproduce his nature into a nation that rejected him and is now in disarray. All it takes is one tiny seed. Limitations on natural afflictions aren't even in the equasion. Daniel most likely lost his ability to reproduce in the natural sense, but God's reproductive nature was very much alive and well inside him and everything he encountered was affected by that.

But for this verse, the thing that tends to surface is, God really is orchestrating this entire thing. It's still "leading up" to something greater. It hasn't fully manifested as of yet, but it's coming.

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