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1 Chapter 1:1-6 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:24 pm

cross-eyed

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Okay, I'm playing with my administrator abilities here and thought we'd try a new thing and see where it goes.

Okay, my hope here is that we go through the book of Daniel from a spiritual perspective . . .break down what you see and share with us the patterns and principles that are lying beneath the written words. Feel free to also include the literal understandings as well, keeping in mind that the call the Father gives us is to walk in the spirit, so even though we converse about what's literally there, our aim is to see where it's pointing us to spiritually, yes?

So, for starters . . .the first six verses of Daniel, what do you see?

King James . . .

[i]1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.

3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

4 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:[/
i]

2 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:18 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Well, for me I always look for Jesus Christ when ever I read anything in the Old Test.

I'll post what I see in Blue.

1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.
Right off the bat, The Third year, speaks of The winding down of Crucifixion and The Resurrection of our King of Judah.
Jehoiakim means--Who God shall Raise.

The king of Babylon means confusion and was about to be let loose on Jerusalem, including on His disciples.
This scripture comes to mind:

Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:


2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.
If I'm reading this right, then The Father is the one who gave His Son into his hands, to be carried away into "The Heart of The earth". Which is symbolic for all of the good things of God, but taken by those with the wrong mind set (Religion), leads to wrong understanding and traditions of men etc.

3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

4 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.
I see the Apostles of Christ here in these verses, for they were extremely persecuted for The message they brought.
But they endured to The end, and turned the world upside down.


5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. Of course they did not partake of these things that he wanted them to eat of.

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
These names are very interesting.
Daniel means-Judge of God, But the three which stand out to me, I see as being symbolic, for not only the three disciples, Peter, James and John, but again the Tabernacle.

Hananiah means- Jah has favored-outer court
Mishael means- Who or what is God?-inner court
Azariah means- Jah has helped-Holy of Holies

This to me is a pattern of our journey into the Tabernacle.
And in that order, Daniel, we are Judged, Hananiah our beginning, Mishael, where we're searching to know, and Azariah, He comes to our aid to save/deliver us.


Blessings



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3 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:48 pm

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My thoughts are in bold:


1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.
The last part here caught my attention: he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god. Religion brings the vessels into their treasure house (what they consider to be their treasure house) the vessels being other men.

3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;
They only want a certain kind of people

4 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.
Those who have not been taught other teachings (no blemish) but who are looked up to, the smart ones, with the ability to think (cunning) only these are eligible to be part of this king's house. Teach them their ways

5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.
They are fed food of the king's choosing (the knowledge he wants them to have so that they can be a representative for the king and remain loyal)

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

As a whole, I see how God works in us and I also see how men use the exact same tactics to get people for their cause. But the difference being, men will only choose those who fit a certain criteria (their standards) whereas God can use anyone. He will use the foolish to shame the wise.

If I may be so bold:
The Beast = Religion
The False prophet = religious leaders
The anti-Christ = anti Savior of ALL

Of course it is only my opinion, I will admit I might be wrong, but it makes sense to me.


Jugghead



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

4 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 pm

cross-eyed

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Wonderful stuff!!! Exactly what I was hoping for!!

I only have ten minutes here but I'll throw in my two cents as well.

1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.


The one thing that causes me to stop reading and take note is "in the THIRD year". It's a gateway . . .an advertisement to lure you in closer, to raise the awareness that you're about to go into another room of the Father's house. It's leading to the resurrection of something here. But first, the process of death takes place. The enemy is "given" the power to bind the chosen.

The enemy can NEVER do ANYTHING with out permission being granted. Inside us, carnality does nothing we don't "allow" it to do. Knowing that this story is in the beginning stages, I look for what's being resurrected at the end of it rather than in the middle of the process. It's early yet.

3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

What jumped out at me here was "eunuchs". Men with no ability to reproduce were given instruction to basically have authority over men to could reproduce, but were in captivity. That to me sounds like pretty much every church out there that embraces the traditional values of men.

times up . . .will play with this some more later. You guys have been putting up some great stuff already though!!

5 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:29 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Nathan, That caught my attention also but it wasn't shown to me what it meant so I didn't comment on it. But I did in that it fits perfectly

and now I see it

Good going

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

6 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:30 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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And I totally missed this with the eunuchs.

What jumped out at me here was "eunuchs". Men with no ability to reproduce were given instruction to basically have authority over men to could reproduce, but were in captivity. That to me sounds like pretty much every church out there that embraces the traditional values of men.

Nice catch Nathan. Now this is what I call havin fun!!




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7 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:48 pm

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Thanks Scherryl for fixing my blunder with the thread issue. Very Happy

Another thing about Daniel's story that I've never heard anyone ever preach. Granted it's not super spiritual but it's more on the historical side of things and that is, it's very probable that Daniel had to become a eunuch himself. That was what they did with people like this. It was the chief of the eunuchs that did the choosing . . .because he was choosing more eunuchs to do service to the king. The purpose for becoming a eunuch was so that the individual would not be distracted by outside urges, desires and distractions.

Consider this . . .
2 Kings 20
14 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country, even from Babylon.

15 And he said, What have they seen in thine house? And Hezekiah answered, All the things that are in mine house have they seen: there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shewed them.

16 And Isaiah said unto Hezekiah, Hear the word of the Lord.

17 Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store unto this day, shall be carried into Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the Lord.

18 And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.


I believe Daniel's life story could very well be the unfolding of this prophecy.

If you think about it, this actually fits God's pattern with reproduction. How often does God take a barren womb and cause it to bring forth a life? This story is fixin to manifest yet another outpouring of life. In the second half of the book, Daniel is given a dream that's extremely familiar to what John received. John was considered the one Jesus favored over the others. I get the feeling that Daniel was a fore-runner of John in a sense.

Daniel seems to be bonded to or connected with this chief of the eunuchs, as this story unfolds, we see the reference to this same guy all the way through the story. I think the miraculous thing happening here is God is using a eunuch as a vehicle through which the seed of life flows back into the entire nation of Egypt when we get to chapter 6 in Daniel and see the climax of what's been building up.

Daniel 6
25 Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.

26 I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

27 He delivereth and rescueth, and he worketh signs and wonders in heaven and in earth, who hath delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.


But . . . I digress . . .

8 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:19 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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I think you may be right about that Nathan, I was just checking and going back to the references and this is what I found.
This was in the margin in the companion bible.

Daniel 1:3

Foretold, 2Ki_20:17-18; Isa_39:7; Jer_41:1


Isn't it just like God to use eunuchs to reproduce after "HIS KIND" in all the earth? Makes you Truly realize that His Seed is "not" after the flesh but The Spirit.

Oh and by the way you are very welcome.



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9 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:07 pm

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I don't know if this may be a digression of sorts too, but you ask about patterns also and I happen to see one I think.

Maybe it's nothing but......When the promise of The Seed/Christ was given to Abraham it was appox. 500 yrs. before the Law, right?

Well, at the time of Daniel and his companions (which was of the Seed Royal) would have also been about 500 yrs. before "The Promised Seed" would make manifest in the earth.

Look at this....

In the third year, &c. It was in the third year of Jehoiakim that Nebuchadnezzar set out from Babylon; and Daniel, writing there, speaks of the starting, not of the arrival at Jerusalem. See note on "came", below. In the fourth year Jehovah says by Jeremiah (Dan_25:9), "I will send". The date would be 497 B.C. and Daniel's sixteenth year, he being born probably in 513 B.C. (Josiah's eighteenth year).

Hope this isn't to much of a digression, but the more I think about it the more exciting it becomes.




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10 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:45 pm

cross-eyed

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Daniel is a bit of a deceiving book . . .it starts out appearing to be simple but it gets deep quite quickly . . .and by the end of it, it goes to bottomless places where infinity dwells.

It wasn't until just now that I realized something . . . Originally, I did intend to try this approach to a book in Scripture with you guys and just revelate our way through it. But what you don't know is, my original plan was to start with Jonah. But when the Lord prompted me today to initiate the plan, Daniel was the "only" book that came to mind. Hmmm . . .wonder what God is up to now?

I have taught on the book of Daniel many years ago, before I had a clue of dimensions and ascended places. I used a curriculim written by someone else. That's what you did when you taught, you used what other people wrote. You never taught on what was written within you because at that time in my life, I couldn't read infinity. Truth was but a trickle, just enough to whett my appetite and I was under the impression that, that little stream was where it was all at. Little did I know the stream leads to depths that natural minds can't fathom.

So . . .this should be something. Reading the book of Daniel from a spiritual perspective rather than just what's in the stories on the page. I've never ventured into it since coming into the kingdom principles. This is going to be a great time in the Lord I sense.

You mentioned the 500 year watermark. That's been an argument of mine with the events in the book of Revelation. In "this" book of Daniel, he's given a vision that scared the bejesus out of him. When he pressed in to understand it's meaning, he was told it wasn't for his time. He was told to SEAL THE BOOK.

Then John comes along . . .a little over 500 years later and he's given a vision of the same caliber and language as Daniel had. And "he's" told to leave his book open because the time was "at hand" which actually means, it's already begun.

People who jump up and down at the idea that the events in Revelation are for "this" generation for me, are misinterpreting the entire thing. Remember when John cried because noone was found worthy to break the seven seals

Revelation 5
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


The book had words, messages, proclamations, recordings, written on not just the front, but the back as well. It was the gateway between what was and what is to come. Daniel's experience was on the backside of the pages. He recorded the "what was". What he saw was in that book . . .the book that was SEALED. There was only one who was worthy to break that seal . . .it wasn't the lion of Judah, it was a lamb that had just been slain.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

I believe not only is this revealing "who" the worthy one is, but it's also revealing "when" the seal was broken. I believe the seal of what Daniel saw was broken in Matthew 24, when Jesus reached back 500 years and brought Daniel right up to that present time.

Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


I also like how Matthew added in "as you read this, know that it's a spiritual picture being revealed here . . ."

See, my argument with the traditional view is, we all know Daniel's vision is the same as John's vision . . .and Matthew 24, Jesus is bringing the two together. Many claim Matthew 24 is about the end of the world, even though Jesus stated twice in Matthew 23, and again in Matthew 24 that it was going to happen to "that" specific generation. I have no argument that one is not connected to the other, my problem is "when" the things there were to unfold.

What Daniel saw, he was told specifically to seal it up, and he was told specifically it wasn't for his time. Those two things are huge. Because only 500 years passed by and Jesus reopened what Daniel had sealed.

Yet when John wrote what "he" saw, he was instructed specifically "not" to seal it up . .and . . .that it was for "his" generation. So what frustrates me is, people ignore the fact that God took the time to comfort Daniel and let him know it wasn't for his day . . .it was for 500 years later. But John, he old him it was for his day and yet they want us to believe the 2000 years that have passed since then don't mean anything, that it's for "our" day now.

Is that making any sense? I know we're not going verse-by-verse right now, but we will. I just think some things can be better embraced when we first look at the big picture before getting into the mega-pixels that make up the big picture.

11 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:49 pm

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It makes perfect sense to me. I have always viewed things this way....well since I've come into Kingdom principles.

All things have their consummation in HIM.

I know I didn't get to many replies on The Trumpets when I wrote, but if you look at it again, you will see that I understand what your saying here.

When we can "SEE" Him and what He has accomplished, it causes us to soar in Faith, and we are moved from faith to faith and from His Glory, to Glory. The seals, Trumpets and the bowls were, opened, Sounded, and poured out in Him Throughout His whole ministry, including and especially on the cross and even in His Death and Resurrection. It is all about what He has done.

We as His body, are now beginning to understand that those things that happened to Him, we are now being partakers of.
How awesome it is, and what a privileged it is to share His Life. But even more so, is to understand that it is His Life within us that we are experiencing.

As with what you said Nathan about the seals being broken by Him when He declared what Daniel was told to seal up, I see the same things being Trumpeted from the cross with the Seven things spoken on the cross.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I have never seen this as a future thing, but an ever present appearing, as His life unfolds Within us.

This is a seeing through faith, that takes place within us and as it does we are constantly finding our Life that is hid in Him.

This is getting so good.




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12 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:55 pm

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I know we're not going verse-by-verse right now, but we will. I just think some things can be better embraced when we first look at the big picture before getting into the mega-pixels that make up the big picture.

Nathan, your statement here is the circle of life, what I mean by that is we start with one verse and His word as a whole explains the one verse, it is the same with any verse, even though it is a part, the whole is seen in it.

We can start anywhere in the word, with any verse and by the work being done in us the whole is always seen.

The little picture "is" the big picture and the big picture "is" the little picture, they are one in the same.

This is why I have a hard time writing at times, because even when I start in one place, He shows me something that I did not see before and I have to go back to the beginning again and rethink what I wrote.

And this I find incredible because He is revealing that one thing is not more important than another, which is: one member is no more important than another, we and each part play an important role in the scenario of life.

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

13 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:56 pm

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The potential of the conversations going on here here is astounding. cheers

3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

4 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah


Clearly the king of Egypt here doesn't have a clue at what God is about to do here as he instructs those who exist only to carry out his desires. One tiny insignificant seed is about to demand everyone's undivided attention, including the king, without even making any effort to do so.

Daniel is the epitome of humility as he embraces who he is, in an unwavering manner, while finding favor of those ruling over him at the same time. Walking in the favor is not an acheivement, it's a manifestation of the alignment we're in with the Father.

They are recognized for their gifts, but unless they "learn the language", their gifts will be useless to the king of Egypt. Keep in mind, this is still in Babylon. Interesting that this city was put on the map due to man attempting to reach God through natural means, and now, God is going to actually complete and fulfill what man originally wanted to do but couldn't, and they can't recognize the experience when God completes it.

Just because we find ourselves in captivity, doesn't mean we're encapable of being in and doing God's will. In fact, in order for there to be a resurrection, there first needs to be a death . . .in order for freedom to manifest, there first must be a bondage. I think that may be why Paul was proclaiming we should give praise to the Father even when bad things happen in our lives. When things go bad, it just created the atmosphere for an ascension to manifest. Rather than getting destraught at the bad situation, face the east, look past the horizon . . .prepare for a resurrection in the places of darkness.

5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

So . . .the king of Egypt, for me this is the old man in me. It's the carnality of natural thinking. There's a saying I used to use a lot when I preached on the contrasts of walking in the natural versus walking in the spirit. Specifically the things pertaining to the mind of man, to "my" mind.

It is a most vital part of "me". Without it, I'd be insane. I NEED to rely on my understanding at all times on any given day. It's not only a good thing, it's a requirement. But . . . when we're called to walk in the spirit of Truth, the rules change. And that's where things get muddy for a lot of people. They assume they're to use the same principles of "this" realm when dealing with things in the "spiritual" realm. You and I call it religion.

Everything I think from a logical perspective in this realm DOESN'T WORK in the spiritual realm. In this realm, I have a list of things I think are important to God. But when I cross over to his realm, everything is all backwards on the list. What I thought the least about, God uses the most. What I thought was most important, God doesn't even acknowledge it's existence. Least is greatest, first is last. This is why losing the mind is such a huge factor when revelating.

God's truth makes no sense to human logic. Turn the other cheek when someone strikes you is not a natural reaction, and it makes no sense. Not in this realm.

This king, in his logic, he assumed these over-achieving men would attain that higher level of intelligence by eating what he eats, and drinking what he drinks. But Daniel, again, not a representative of my woman in me, but of my man, he lives by a whole other code of understanding.

In all the gifted men he was with that came along with him, none of the others were aware of these strange diets he lived on. It wasn't something that could be taught. Sound familiar?

And again, in that verse, there's that number again. We started with the "3rd year" of the king of Judah, and now we're seeing another measurement of another 3rd year. Look for another ascension to take place.

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah

Hananaiah, God has favored
Mishael, who is what God is
Azariah, God has helped

Another dimension of three . . .but like every other aspect of "me", there is a required "baking" time that needs to transpire. But the stage is now set, resurrection is written all over the place. Combining the three of those into one, I am the image of God . . .I am a visible manifestation of who God is . . .I am, who is what God is. And included in that is not just a promise that God will help, it's a declaration that it's already finished. God "has" helped.

But as the process moves forward, we're not allowed to walki in this identity just yet, we're still trying to identify ourselves yet. Ever have that in your life at some point where God distinctly declares something in you and your mind tries to put it in layman's terms? I think when the king of Egypt changes these guys' names, that's a picture of the same thing. We try to put into our own words something that words can't wrap around.

14 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:59 pm

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I know what you mean Jugg, as I was writing my last post I had so much I wanted to say, and there's just no way to put it in words that could fully be expressed as to what I was seeing.

Right now I'm sitting here and my mind is just racing with wonderful things that are coming forth from what you and I have talked about on the phone, and how all of this is tied in.

He's incredible! I can hardly wait for the next verses, because Daniel and his companions didn't eat from the meat that was offered, but what they did eat is going to blow your minds, if you haven't seen it before.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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15 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:09 pm

A.R.T.I.C

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Ok, Nathan, LOL, I have to ask, why do you keep referring to the King of Egypt? Is it a spiritual reference?






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16 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:00 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Scherryl wrote:Ok, Nathan, LOL, I have to ask, why do you keep referring to the King of Egypt? Is it a spiritual reference?




I have no idea what Nathan might be referring to but it can be see as the king that rules in "the place of captivity" (Egypt) which is the mind, we take every thought captive in obedience to Christ, but which one is taking the thought captive, the natural or the spiritual.

Remember what I said on the phone, the natural will toss thoughts away not believing that the possibility might be truth or what we can even learn through a lie, but the spiritual examines all possibilities, for that in itself is to seek the truth.

My two cents here

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

17 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:48 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. LOL

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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18 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 am

cross-eyed

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Yes, the king of Egypt is the serpent within us. The carnal nature we all are born with and wrestle with on a daily basis. Our logic wants to war with anything we can't comprehend, If I can't comprehend it, I can't control it. If I can't control it, then I want to kill it. In contrast, loving one another is a great example of just the opposite. Submitting ourselves to one another is the opposite of control, it's not logical, but the kingdom of heaven doesn't operate by natural logic. The king of Egypt is the chief, the decision maker, the logical reasoner within us all. And again, in this realm, that's not a bad thing, but the moment we enter into the spiritual realm, this mind simply MUST change gears from OPERATION to OBSERVATION.

I wrote a song once with a line in it that says "The best that I can do is be amazed . . ." and that about sums it up when it comes to the things of God. We don't earn understanding, it's unveiled to us. We can't enhance it, add to it, or alter it, we can only observe it and be amazed and awed by the Father's love.

19 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:03 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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cross-eyed wrote:
We can't enhance it, add to it, or alter it, we can only observe it and be amazed and awed by the Father's love.

Talk about the bottom line, it says it all, very well put Nathan. It is statements like these that become the headings in my understandings.

And as Scherryl would do, I put my "KEEPER" stamp on that one.

Thank you for that.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

20 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:26 pm

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cross-eyed wrote:Yes, the king of Egypt is the serpent within us. The carnal nature we all are born with and wrestle with on a daily basis. Our logic wants to war with anything we can't comprehend, If I can't comprehend it, I can't control it. If I can't control it, then I want to kill it. In contrast, loving one another is a great example of just the opposite. Submitting ourselves to one another is the opposite of control, it's not logical, but the kingdom of heaven doesn't operate by natural logic. The king of Egypt is the chief, the decision maker, the logical reasoner within us all. And again, in this realm, that's not a bad thing, but the moment we enter into the spiritual realm, this mind simply MUST change gears from OPERATION to OBSERVATION.

I wrote a song once with a line in it that says "The best that I can do is be amazed . . ." and that about sums it up when it comes to the things of God. We don't earn understanding, it's unveiled to us. We can't enhance it, add to it, or alter it, we can only observe it and be amazed and awed by the Father's love.

I'm amazed, Nathan! I almost feel that my mind has been destroyed enough to be able to be able to go with this. I know my king of egypt isn't ruling well, and would like to see him demoted to ruling not-at-all.


jugghead wrote:...we start with one verse and His word as a whole explains the one verse, it is the same with any verse, even though it is a part, the whole is seen in it.

We can start anywhere in the word, with any verse and by the work being done in us the whole is always seen.

The little picture "is" the big picture and the big picture "is" the little picture, they are one in the same.

What an excellent way to describe this! A couple of decades ago I heard an in-depth engineering analogy to the perfection of this messaging system found in scripture. Here is Chuck Missler's talk on holography if you want to devote ten minutes or so to being amazed at just how perfect.

21 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:39 pm

cross-eyed

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Yeah Dave, my king of Egypt does okay ruling Egypt. But Daniel isn't "from" Egypt is he. This story is getting overwhelming already. The king had to teach Daniel how to speak his language, while at the same time, Daniel's principles became Egypt's savior when the famine hit. Daniel learned a new language but never changed his character. That's a powerful lesson in and of itself. Paul even stated that he also had to "become" like the people he was reaching out to in order to minister to them. Jesus did the same thing. The woman at the well, Jesus used the water that she "thought" she came to get as a doorway that brought him into her heart . . .but with the Pharisees, he used Scripture. The message is the same, the delivery is what changes.

22 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:59 pm

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cross-eyed wrote:...my king of Egypt does okay ruling Egypt...

There are times I wish I could say the same, and my wife and kids would pray this for sure, but I'll be honest in saying that my guy sucks and I'm getting a little anxious to see him deposed. Evil or Very Mad

And did God Himself not raise up "my guy" as an oppressor over me? If I say that he sucks do I not blaspheme the Most High God by speaking evil of His sovereignty? So now what, do I submit to the wooden yoke of my king of egypt so as to avoid the iron yoke that my Savior would replace it with were I to shirk off the easy bonds? Or is it already too late for that?

I have long wondered why the Author of the book of Daniel chose to introduce Daniel and the three other young men by their Hebrew names but then refers to the three by the names given to them in Babylon, while Daniel continues to be called by his actual name.



Last edited by DavidHarreld on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Too many questions for one guy to keep to himself)

23 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:56 pm

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DavidHarreld wrote:
cross-eyed wrote:...my king of Egypt does okay ruling Egypt...

There are times I wish I could say the same, and my wife and kids would pray this for sure, but I'll be honest in saying that my guy sucks and I'm getting a little anxious to see him deposed. Evil or Very Mad

And did God Himself not raise up "my guy" as an oppressor over me? If I say that he sucks do I not blaspheme the Most High God by speaking evil of His sovereignty? So now what, do I submit to the wooden yoke of my king of egypt so as to avoid the iron yoke that my Savior would replace it with were I to shirk off the easy bonds? Or is it already too late for that?

I have long wondered why the Author of the book of Daniel chose to introduce Daniel and the three other young men by their Hebrew names but then refers to the three by the names given to them in Babylon, while Daniel continues to be called by his actual name.

My dear David, do not become anxious, rest in faith and He will bring the understanding to you, recognize it by seeing that you are asking questions .... He is trying to lift the burden you (or others) have placed upon you, rest in faith and wait for answers, do not be anxious for them, your strength will be renewed by waiting upon the Lord.

Do not force it, as Nathan states, it is a chain of command, first comes the natural then the spiritual, it is the process we all have to go through and you "ARE" a willing participant, as we all are, whether we think so or not and He knows it already.

Picture this: you are on a boat on a flowing river, this boat is your faith and Christ is with you on that boat. Your life is the flowing river of understanding, you are at rest in faith (on the boat) and as you are flowing down the river of understanding (Experiencing your life), Christ is explaining the shorelines (the shorelines being the world's understanding and His understanding to you as you pass each item).

Rest in faith and let Him explain things as they come up along the way. He is already doing this for you, don't be in a rush to get to the final destination, because in this realm, the journey itself is a destination.

Brother Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

24 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:19 pm

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Wow . . Jugg that was a wonderful response. Such a refreshing flow of words and wisdom.

25 Re: Chapter 1:1-6 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:36 pm

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Amen. Thank you, Jugg. The scene you portray is sublime, and Who knows but that it might be exactly how I need to see Him at this very moment. I love how the Spirit flows, and to be completely caught up in that is what I suppose He has been preparing my entire life for.

And YES. Be anxious for nothing, but... I know that. He promises that all of our needs are met (whether it feels like it or not). But then those 'righteous anxieties' can creep in and blow the whole scene. You know what I'm talking about, like what I just did.

And wouldn't you know that this little admonishment just precedes the TRUTH passage I love so much?!!

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you. (Php 4:6-9 NKJV)


I just love how Nathan's translation closes:

Put into practice what you learned from me, what you heard and saw and realized. Do that, and God, who makes everything work together, will work you into his most excellent harmonies. (Php 4:9 MSG)


There's the place I want to be. And I will wait on Him, confidently, to show me that this is where He has had me all along, if only I were able to clearly discern the shoreline through all the fog.

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