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How can God let such a horrific thing happen to such innocent children?

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cross-eyed

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I saw this question come up on the political front.

Any takers?

Y'Israel

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We are in grave disobedience to God! We as a people did EXACTLY as God said we would do in the wilderness.... Turn AGAIN to the idols of egypt! I'll explain but this God's sending of evil plagues (angels) to torment the children of Egypt.

They are COMPLETELY fooled by the modern sorcerers and magicians of egypt.

Some man does this because he's mad at his parents!? I don't even care what the news said was the reason, I know that the same ones who would dare to drop the twin towers did this! The angels are us! The evil angels are simply doing their service to the outer court. These men will do anything to "hold the rebuilt babylon" together so to speak.

It's funny the next day some old man was arrested for allegedly plotting the same type of event! They used this bs story for another "false witness" to uphold a form of truth, all the while ironically telling the real truth . Hard to say so let me explain the points of the story and how they play on words.


He plots to kill wife following her to school and also killing her kids, followed by the police saying they don't believe it was a real threat! Huh!!?

The police went to his house and found many guns. Followed by though most of them were collectors items and antiques! I mean huh!?

It was the same way with the twin towers and the stories that surrounded that.

The increase is here! But they withhold it from us by keeping us working! The truth is THERE IS NO REASON TO WORK NO MORE! The wealthy knows this, but as long as we don't, they will continue to charge for what has been handed to us freely!

Now the people would see this the way the news made it out to be because they are blind and they cannot hear. They worship the system.

But we ourselves are not innocent as well my friend. Ezekiel was charged with a mission. That he should speak to warn the people!


I cried for those kids... I cried for the gunner... I felt the blood on my hands, because I am not warning the people!

I'll spend half a day debating whether or not there is a such thing as a "free will"

As a servant, there is no such thing. But as a son! I am above even the system. We live like this because we choose to be subjugated by the vanity we're subjected to!

This is why they died! Because the same night, before I went to sleep a tv show described a house on the market for $9.5 million dollars with a toilet seat costing $6,000!

And until we put that dividing line between His sons and His servants, we will continue to make bricks without straw, and fill pharaoh's daily quota.

cross-eyed

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I had heard this same question posed to Billy Graham's daughter when the twin towers fell in 911. She gave a very moving response about how we've taken God out of schools, courtrooms and the public eye. It was God's vengeance toward a country that's continually denouncing him.

I would ask for just a moment that we take the emotion of the evil out of it and seriously think about who God truly is. Is God a god of law? Or Love? Yes, he's both, but which manifests the most in our lives? His law? or His love? Actually, his law "is" love.

He loves us so much that he sent his son to die so we'll be reconciled back to him. Did we "do" anything to be reconciled? Or did Jesus do it all? For me, the idea that this world is getting what it deserves is more "an eye for an eye" mindset.

When the disciples were being murdered, was that because "they" too also turned their backs on God? Did God have them tortured and murdered because they didn't act like they were supposed to? We look at history and see that it was through that terrible time of darkness against the church, that the church actually spread and multiplied.

I personally believe God didn't "allow" anything. I believe there was a reason why he told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge. "This" is what it would come to. It would come to a world where trials and tribulation would flourish because "that" is the results of a cursed earth in which we live in.

Here, it rains on both the just and the unjust. I hear people talk about God being "in control" but I think there's a deception happening there. It's like everything else the church has ingrained into us. It's a blame game. Blame satan for the dirty stuff, blame God for not stopping satan.

Can man truly place God "anywhere"? Do we really have the power to remove him from his place? I used to embrace the mindset of those like Billy Graham's daughter. It's "their" fault for taking God out of schools and denouncing him in the courtrooms and letting those with perverted relationships gain recognition as a man and woman in marriage. But now, I beg to differ.

God hasn't gone anywhere. It's "us". It's "me". "I" have failed my post. Jesus even taught us what to pray . . ."thy kingdom COME, thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven. "We" have the keys of authority.

It "does" have to do with denouncing God, but it's not because we've overpowered him and we've taken him out of schools and such. The only way I can take God out of our local school is by removing my kids from it. He's not in books and Bibles. He's not in the Bible they swear on in the courtrooms. He's in our DNA.

He's turned the keys of power of THIS realm over to us. and what we're seeing happen around us is a result of how we've failed to exercise that power. Our words create our atmosphere. We have the power to loose and to bind. We have the power to release his kingdom here in our very realm and existence.]

"Now" when I hear their response pointing at political powers that removed God . . .it makes me cringe a little. Man gives man way too much credit. God isn't an object you can just pick up and move. He's not a person you can drive out of a piece of real-estate.

"This" place we call planet earth, it's part of his very atmosphere. Now . . .having said all of that. . . I also believe when we fail to exercise our place in him, carnality reigns.

I don't see it as demonic forces terrorizing the nation, I see it as people who have looked to people for answers and direction rather than turning to the source of life and light. Yes, I do believe it's because man has turned away from God, but God hasn't done anything different as a result.

It's just as what Peter did when he was walking on water. Jesus didn't cause him to almost drown because he took his eyes off of him. Peter's mind diverted his attention from what was enabling him to walk above it all. Jesus didn't knock his feet out from under him, it was a principle of how this realm works. This realm is a realm of death and destruction. When we shut the light off, when we turn away from the "L"ight, darkness does what darkness always does, it replaces light if WE LET IT.

My prayer is that we turn back to the light source and begin "seeing" what can't be seen and CALLING IT OUT as though it already is. Bring the kingdom back to men.

20 kids died a horrific death, the nation is mourning the loss. But are they going to turn? Are "we" going to re-evaluate our own purposes? This goes to me just as much as it's being written to you. When we see our leaders call for prayer, we'll see darkness being pushed back.

But if all we see is our leaders feeling badly for the terrible things happening, nothing will change. No one is calling out for the kingdom to come. Let it begin with me.

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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cross-eyed wrote:
But if all we see is our leaders feeling badly for the terrible things happening, nothing will change. No one is calling out for the kingdom to come. Let it begin with me.

Amen, Brother Nathan, Amen

And let it also begin with me

Bring thy kingdom Father so men may see your glory.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

Y'Israel

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That is not prayer he's calling upon. And I know he's in place at God's will. But it is for this very purpose that He raised them up! To display God's great power.

Please understand. Political systems and religious institutions are producers of the same thing we are able to produce. TALK!

Those that came before us, from adam to moses and from moses to Jesus, and all who've died have been doing the same things as long as we can remember. WE ALL KNOW THAT DEATH AWAITS US! That's why it's call a wilderness! We are the remnant. Having knowledge of the dead works of the past.

But we say we believe in one who overcame death and rose from it! Shall we then worship our Gods within the land of pharaoh? Shall we then sacrifice the abomination before them? What this means is that we are allowed to preach the salvation of all WITHIN THE SYSTEM! How can they yet believe us when we act as if we are subjugated as well?



J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Y'Israel wrote:That is not prayer he's calling upon. And I know he's in place at God's will. But it is for this very purpose that He raised them up! To display God's great power.

Please understand. Political systems and religious institutions are producers of the same thing we are able to produce. TALK!

Those that came before us, from adam to moses and from moses to Jesus, and all who've died have been doing the same things as long as we can remember. WE ALL KNOW THAT DEATH AWAITS US! That's why it's call a wilderness! We are the remnant. Having knowledge of the dead works of the past.

But we say we believe in one who overcame death and rose from it! Shall we then worship our Gods within the land of pharaoh? Shall we then sacrifice the abomination before them? What this means is that we are allowed to preach the salvation of all WITHIN THE SYSTEM! How can they yet believe us when we act as if we are subjugated as well?




But are we not asking for the kingdom to come "in" us so that we can preach from within the system?



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

A.R.T.I.C

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Amen Jugg,

We are ambassadors for Christ, and represent a Land that is not of this World. Why would there not be resistance? But "in" Him, we can do all things.

But remember, how much those Great men of God suffered for the Kingdom, we are reaping what they have sowed, and those after us, will reap what we sow now.

This is all the Work of Christ.


Israel, find your joy in Him, don't let this world steal that from you. We are not of this world, we will do and give accordingly.

We must seek to find "His" purpose in all things.
Even in the midst of Great Darkness, The Light of The Lord Will Shine.

Darkness has "never" overtaken That Light, and it "never" will, no matter what the World would have us to believe or see.

Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

cross-eyed

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Being raised in the church as most of us have been . . .and being a pastor of a church for just under 10 years, I have seen first hand that the system of the church will not allow you to have the personal relationship they claim you should have. The system has established boundaries in which they have well intentioned people that are continuously guarding those boundaries. Whenever you have a relationship with infinity "within" an established system created by man, something's gotta give.

I promise you that if I went to ANY church in my city and started sharing my take on hell to them, or the rapture or pretty much anything, they would very quickly force me to either conform to their perspective or ask me to leave. So much for "personal" relationship.

You can have a relationship with God in the system, so long as it doesn't conflict with their agreed upon platform.

Y'Israel

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cross-eyed wrote:Being raised in the church as most of us have been . . .and being a pastor of a church for just under 10 years, I have seen first hand that the system of the church will not allow you to have the personal relationship they claim you should have. The system has established boundaries in which they have well intentioned people that are continuously guarding those boundaries. Whenever you have a relationship with infinity "within" an established system created by man, something's gotta give.

I promise you that if I went to ANY church in my city and started sharing my take on hell to them, or the rapture or pretty much anything, they would very quickly force me to either conform to their perspective or ask me to leave. So much for "personal" relationship.

You can have a relationship with God in the system, so long as it doesn't conflict with their agreed upon platform.

This is what I intend to do. I know what awaits me my friend.

But if I must shake the dust off of my feet as a witness against them, then so be it.

You know I've been called a universalist but I have yet to meet one personally.

As long as we preach the salvation of all "within the land" of pharaoh, we too sacrifice the abomination of the gentiles before their eyes! This is why the people stone us. Because within the system, we're no different than any other by the system.

Y'Israel

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Scherryl wrote:Amen Jugg,

We are ambassadors for Christ, and represent a Land that is not of this World. Why would there not be resistance? But "in" Him, we can do all things.

But remember, how much those Great men of God suffered for the Kingdom, we are reaping what they have sowed, and those after us, will reap what we sow now.

This is all the Work of Christ.


Israel, find your joy in Him, don't let this world steal that from you. We are not of this world, we will do and give accordingly.

We must seek to find "His" purpose in all things.
Even in the midst of Great Darkness, The Light of The Lord Will Shine.

Darkness has "never" overtaken That Light, and it "never" will, no matter what the World would have us to believe or see.

Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Blessings


Don't get me wrong beloved. My strength and faith is strong in that we know the outcome.
The people of the past didn't die simply because they taught salvation for all, they died because they challenged the system of buying and selling!

Again what we say is just talk seeing as how we all die according to the flesh. So to worship "within" the land is now permitted. But to come out of the land (system) to worship, to then mess with this money, things get funny!

How much crime would you suppose happen if all families were given now their 40 acres and a mule (transportation and technology for easy living) along with this knowledge that God loves us all? Would not even the beasts of the earth lie down in safety?

cross-eyed

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Y'Israel wrote:
cross-eyed wrote:Being raised in the church as most of us have been . . .and being a pastor of a church for just under 10 years, I have seen first hand that the system of the church will not allow you to have the personal relationship they claim you should have. The system has established boundaries in which they have well intentioned people that are continuously guarding those boundaries. Whenever you have a relationship with infinity "within" an established system created by man, something's gotta give.

I promise you that if I went to ANY church in my city and started sharing my take on hell to them, or the rapture or pretty much anything, they would very quickly force me to either conform to their perspective or ask me to leave. So much for "personal" relationship.

You can have a relationship with God in the system, so long as it doesn't conflict with their agreed upon platform.

This is what I intend to do. I know what awaits me my friend.

But if I must shake the dust off of my feet as a witness against them, then so be it.

You know I've been called a universalist but I have yet to meet one personally.

As long as we preach the salvation of all "within the land" of pharaoh, we too sacrifice the abomination of the gentiles before their eyes! This is why the people stone us. Because within the system, we're no different than any other by the system.

Yeah, I've been called a universalist as well and I guess if one needed to be pegged, I lean more toward a universalist than in any other direction I guess. But even they struggle with seeing things dimensionally . . .at least that's been "my" experience.

Y'Israel

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Whomever these people are, if their foundation is truly the salvation of all, then they will assemble.

cross-eyed

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I also found that my peers at the time see a "universalist" as a terrible thing because, according to them, they believe it means there are many roads leading to heaven and not just the one through Christ.

I didn't even try to approach the heaven issue, but I did try to explain that no one was side-stepping Christ, we're instead "focusing" on him. It's "because" of Christ that all are redeemed in the end.

But at the same time, everything is tied to everything else. You start tugging on that string and it will eventually reach their hell doctrine and that is too sacred ground to even question.

A.R.T.I.C

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How well we know that, Nathan.

They have to Label you first, because of this, now they can Judge you (according to their own mind, righteously). Rolling Eyes








The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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Scherryl wrote:How well we know that, Nathan.

They have to Label you first, because of this, now they can Judge you (according to their own mind, righteously). Rolling Eyes


It is no different if I say that for me, death has already been cast into the LOF, and what I mean by that is, what people in this world see as death, I see as salvation, they are saved from the ignorance of men (including us).

Death is just a transformation from the physical world into the spiritual world, it is being born again.

If I see on the news that someone is killed and they ask, how can God allow it? (Back to your original question Nathan). I don't see it as they were killed, I see it as "They were taken home and the evil in this world is what sent them home early"

If someone asks why does God allow a person to be tortured or raped? Just look at the cross, that was also allowed by God. I see all these things as just another type or shadow of Christ, for are not all of us a type if we are experiencing His life?

And byit, all I see is life, death is dead.

Nuff said

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

A.R.T.I.C

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Amen Brother




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

klm4jc


Greetings all, it's been a while since I contributed but have enjoyed and learned from your posts.

I am indifferent towards the recent shooting. What makes this so much more tragic than any of the other senseless violence that goes on within this world? I personally think that all the outrage from the weeping talking heads, many who are women, is merely a manifestation of the displaced guilt of a nation that has ignored the cries of the unborn which are slaughtered in the womb (or outside it in some cases) durin the last 40 years since the 'right' of abortion was upheld by our legal system. Eventually your unacknowledged sin, even those of a nation, catch up with you. What hypocrisy to be lectured by the media regarding the tragic killing of 5 and 6 year olds, when they are the first to defend even the practice of late term abortion where the child has actually been born. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be callous about the shooting and my heart does go out to those that lost children, but to say that this is the most tragic event ever and we must absolutely do something now in order to prevent this from happening again is all political.

If we haven't the stomach or the heart to walk through this we will not get very far. We will panic and cave to the spirit of fear that is in man. I am reminded of Ps 14:1; The fool has said in his heart there is no God. In Romans we understand that because man decided to worship the creation versus the Creator, he gave them over to a reprobate mind. So it comes as no surprise that a man can take a gun and heartlessly kill innocence. In fact, if we believe there is a great awakening that is to occur, reason should inform us that there will be a great 'sleeping' that occurs from which one must be awakened. So, I suspect times will get darker indeed as we learn to stay the course and not be deterred.

So what should we do? No offense to anyone, but I am going to continue to do what I have been doing, pray to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus. I don't feel a need to go shout at anyone be it those of the world or those of the deaf, dumb and blind religious system. If they have a question of me, I will answer but I feel no need to be the fiery prophet warning of the impending doom if we all don't repent of our misguided understanding. I don't think that is my calling. In regards to what we should do, I am reminded of the parable of the 10 virgins. I think the day is coming when this will be the case "But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves".

I must stand by my faith that He that started this within me will see it to completion. It's not what I must do but what He must continue to do within me.

Well, that's my rant. It helps me fight off the tendency I have to pick up arms when what I really need to do is rest.

God bless and Merry Christmas,
Kevin

A.R.T.I.C

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Hey Kevin,

Welcome back
And A Merry Christmas to you too.


Like you Kevin, I haven't felt the need to do anything but Rest in Him either. I've not heard from The Lord on this personally, and I know there are Great Tragedies that take place everyday that we are not aware of.

I trust Him to see us through no matter what comes our way. Thank you Kevin for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

God Bless you




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

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klm4jc wrote:I am indifferent towards the recent shooting...

...So what should we do? No offense to anyone, but I am going to continue to do what I have been doing, pray to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus.

It's easy to receive what you're sharing here, Kevin. This cuts both ways, too. I can't even get too excited when a 'criminal' is brought to justice. Do you remember the media circus around the Navy SEALs execution of the alleged OBL? All the images on the news were of people partying and celebrating! I thought, "I'll be dancing in the streets when all of the killing has stopped." That's all I could think or say about it.

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Eye for an eye leaves us both blind. Peace and LIFE. Shalom

A.R.T.I.C

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Jeremy1 wrote:Eye for an eye leaves us both blind. Peace and LIFE. Shalom

I really like this Jeremy.


Merry Christmas




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

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cross-eyed wrote:...I also found that my peers at the time see a "universalist" as a terrible thing because, according to them, they believe it means there are many roads leading to heaven and not just the one through Christ...

Scherryl wrote:...They have to Label you first, because of this, now they can Judge you (according to their own mind, righteously).

Is that what we are seen as? I wonder if they are confusing us with Universalist Unitarians? If so, we are definitely fodder for ridicule. I came across some jokes I heard on Garrison Keillor's Prairie Home Companion a couple of years ago and he had a string of them in there about Universalists. Garrison is good at highlighting religious differences, and plays on the hometown catholic vs. protestant thing in his show most every week.

My good friend Ward has often brought up terms from his studies and sharing like calvinism and some other ism's but I never do remember what they mean. I guess to be honest I don't have a lot of interest in the subject so it never sticks. It just always seemed that whatever it is that I was experiencing of God surely transcended any labels that could be put on it and probably incorporated facets from everything, so in that light we are probably living some type of universalism.

Anyway, here are a few bits from the January 22, 2011 Joke Show. It was a special feature and Garrison had me in stitches for some of it. Anyone wants the entire transcript may find it here. If this is how the world sees us, then it is no wonder we haven't been taken seriously.

An Agnostic and an Atheist were married and had a real problem.
They couldn't decide which religion not to raise their children in.

A young lady came home from a date, rather sad. She told her mother, "Jeff proposed to me an hour ago."
"Then why are you so sad?" her mother asked.
"Because he also told me he was an atheist. Mom, he doesn't even believe there's a hell."
Her mother said, "Marry him anyway. Between the two of us, we'll show him how wrong he is."

There was a terrible car accident. A woman was lying in the street, covered in blood. Someone in the crowd shouted, "Call a priest!"
The woman opened her eyes and said, "I'm a Unitarian."
"Then call a math teacher!"

What do you call a dead Unitarian Universalist?
All dressed up with no place to go.

Jesus took a Unitarian out fishing and the Unitarian accidentally dropped an oar and watched it float away. Jesus stepped out of the boat, walked across the water to the oar, grabbed it, and walked back to the boat. The next day, a friend asked the Unitarian if he had enjoyed fishing with the Lord. "It was okay, but would you believe that guy can't swim?"

What's the Unitarian's favorite Christmas movie?
Coincidence on 34th Street.

It's hard being a Unitarian.
Who do you call out to during orgasm.

Old Unitarians try to die on the second Thursday of the month because that's when the recycling goes out.

The only time you hear "Jesus Christ" in a Unitarian church is when someone falls down the stairs.

Unitarians don't like heaven because they don't like gated communities.

Everyone in heaven is in agreement, so it's not heaven to Unitarians.

A.R.T.I.C

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LOL, that's just about right David,

That's exactly how Religion will treat you once they have labeled you.

You know it's funny that this has come up.
I'm also on another forum called Christian chat.com It's the same board that they ripped me and Israel apart on just before they banned us permanently.

Anyhow, I've been posting over there for a couple of weeks now, and since they don't know who I am because I have not yet crossed the line with what I truly believe as far as All being saved, they like everything I'm saying, in fact I just checked this morning and I've got 33 post, and 26 or 29 likes..
which to me is SOOOOOO phony, because if they only knew who it was that they were talking to, they would string me up and discard everything that I have said to them (that they liked) and throw it out with me, in a heartbeat. They would turn on me like a viper.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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aaaaaaannnnnd.....some of these folks may also be coming around, too. Your new forum profile lets them talk to you while saving face for them, which may be very important right now for them.

A.R.T.I.C

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Could very well be, I pray Lord lead me into their hearts, because if I'm there so is He.

Thanks David




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