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Psalms 23 "Testimony"

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26 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:39 pm

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You all were talking about blood the other day and I've yet to look at that but it sure sounds good!

Scherryl, I think I was restating what you and Rick were talking about in layman's terms. We examine ourselves and judge. We find ourselves broken, dysfunctional, incapable and to top it off arrogant. We think we know things that we know nothing about! Oh my God, I am a dungheap and my righteousness (outside of Christ) is just like a soiled maxi-pad. How can I even look up in this condition? I won't. How pitiful of me to think there's anything in me worthy to gaze upon God's throne. No, better for me to just lie my head down on the ground and breathe dust. And that still doesn't bring me low enough to reflect the measure of how low my glory towers under His. That's all I have to think about regarding my nature. He has brought me to this point, to realize that there is nothing good enough in me to spend any time with or even look at. What else do I even have the capacity of knowing without getting all bloated out with pride?

But wait, there is a promise that gets us out of this mess, and I have never known God to shirk:

Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
(Jas 4:9-10 NKJV)


We don't even have to think about the lifting up part. That's all on Him!

27 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:44 pm

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DavidHarreld wrote:

We don't even have to think about the lifting up part. That's all on Him!

To quote a line from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"

AWESOME, TOTALLY AWESOME



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

28 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:12 pm

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This is the message of the cross. And yes! I see firsthand why the flesh must find offense in this message. I shared this with Jonathan this morning and he could see it too: "We suck." It's the way of the cross and I'm starting to see what you are referring to about the blood. Just as Christ was drained of His blood and water on the cross.

This is not twelve steps to becoming humbler or anything like that. It's more about seeing ourselves in our actual state so we can then see Him lift us up out of it. It adds an additional element to the two works of Christ. His first work was death on the cross. This is the sacrifice whereby His blood was shed to cover all of our sins. This covering serves to make that which is appear as if it were not. The second work is where we are actually set free from sin and death, in effect making that which was exist no more. This is my understanding, however imperfect. What He is showing me fits with this, but knowing that the second work is fully dependent upon our identification with His first work. Do we suck? YES!!! Do we know that we suck? This is the question for the aeon, if I don't miss being wrong by much.

It tickles me that Jonathan gets this. He used to be my son but now it seems more a friend, a fellow explorer.

It is liberating to know that I suck. One activity is just about the same as another when I know that I suck anyway, so laying down my life for another is a fairly simple deal.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
(1Co 1:18 NKJV)

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
(Eph 2:14-16 NKJV)


For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
(Col 1:19-20 NKJV)

Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(Heb 12:1-2 NKJV)



29 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:54 am

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Today has been an interesting day. Along with Jonathan, I shared this vision with Hollis and Ward. Hollis had strong objections this morning, and seemed to warm to the vision this evening when I told her how Ward had responded: his joy was through the roof! He had this revelation a few years ago, and has only been led to four or five people who could also see it. Never in church. It has been lonely for him. I can relate, for this forum is as close to church as I come to anymore and I don't see much encouragement from here to drift along with the current I am caught up in. I'm sorry if I'm not explaining it well, but I don't think that is so much the issue. Immediately, Ward knew exactly what I was describing. God had already shown it to him! Jonathan could see it too, as the Lord revealed it to him in the Spirit while we shared. It was so refreshing especially talking with Ward. We were finishing each others' sentences. Ward started to quote some scripture or another that is supposed to be telling us how to walk according to the spirit instead of the flesh and I interjected without even hearing which saying it was, "We can't do that!" Ward just about split a gut at this. "I know!!!" We both laughed. The Spirit can convey so much better than the letter. I hope someone else can see this or if not show me the flaw. My sisters and brothers here are truly brilliant in describing the ways of the spirit in temporal language and I know I am bringing this to the proper forum. Maybe this is the only forum suitable for debating such things. Iron sharpening iron. I love this.

Can we revisit this one, Rick?

jugghead wrote:It is by this that we have to be reminded, to not swell up in pride, we do our best to consume bread without leaven. If we do, our body has to be cleansed of it again; a fast of sort.

We can't do any of that! Is that my thought or His? If we consume unleavened bread, it is because He provided it to us and caused a hunger in us for it. If we are not swelled up with pride it is only because we are fully prostrate, mindful that our corruption is even worse than we can imagine. If we are fasting, it is because our mouths can taste only dirt.

Does this sound harsh? Only when one remains one step removed from crucifiction does this seem too heavy for a man to bear. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of the cliff. Once you finally let go, your burden instantly becomes light.

30 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 am

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DavidHarreld wrote:

Can we revisit this one, Rick?

jugghead wrote:It is by this that we have to be reminded, to not swell up in pride, we do our best to consume bread without leaven. If we do, our body has to be cleansed of it again; a fast of sort.

We can't do any of that! Is that my thought or His? If we consume unleavened bread, it is because He provided it to us and caused a hunger in us for it. If we are not swelled up with pride it is only because we are fully prostrate, mindful that our corruption is even worse than we can imagine. If we are fasting, it is because our mouths can taste only dirt.

Does this sound harsh? Only when one remains one step removed from crucifiction does this seem too heavy for a man to bear. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of the cliff. Once you finally let go, your burden instantly becomes light.

Of course we can revisit, is it not from examining previous events that we grow in understanding?

I know we cannot do any of that, it is all Him doing these things in us, what I have come to understand in what I speak of, when I say the word "we" it first apllies to myself in that I am still carnal and I am also of spirit, understanding that it first takes place in us so that we can fully understand so as to be able to teach others is a goal of Christ in us.

Let's look at my first statement, "It is by this we have to be reminded" the "we" is first pertaining to me, Christ in me and my carnal self still being present because I am still in this body of flesh.

The "we" is divided in the mind, "mentally separated" which is the definition of the word used in Proverbs as "perceive", the "we" is Christ reminding the "self" in me, these are the two in me (we).

So now, this is taken by you and this same things happens in you, the separation of the two within the mind.

For example, when you say the words "I suck" in your posts, this is the carnal self in you saying this to the one who is suppose to be changing into the new creature. In other words, it is your "carnal self" bearing false witness against the neighbor in you, both your new creature that is being developed by Christ being in you and it is being said to Christ because He is "in" your new self.

All things are "because of" Him doing a work "in" us, by understanding what I just explained is happening in you .... and you believing that it is true, God is developing the gift of discernment in you, He is exercising that muscle that needs strength, HIS STRENGTH.

Nothing is too harsh if taken in the Spirit, because it is all for His purpose in us.

Jugg



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

31 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:22 pm

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jugghead wrote:
Of course we can revisit, is it not from examining previous events that we grow in understanding?

I know we cannot do any of that, it is all Him doing these things in us, what I have come to understand in what I speak of, when I say the word "we" it first apllies to myself in that I am still carnal and I am also of spirit, understanding that it first takes place in us so that we can fully understand so as to be able to teach others is a goal of Christ in us.

Let's look at my first statement, "It is by this we have to be reminded" the "we" is first pertaining to me, Christ in me and my carnal self still being present because I am still in this body of flesh.

The "we" is divided in the mind, "mentally separated" which is the definition of the word used in Proverbs as "perceive", the "we" is Christ reminding the "self" in me, these are the two in me (we).

So now, this is taken by you and this same things happens in you, the separation of the two within the mind.

For example, when you say the words "I suck" in your posts, this is the carnal self in you saying this to the one who is suppose to be changing into the new creature. In other words, it is your "carnal self" bearing false witness against the neighbor in you, both your new creature that is being developed by Christ being in you and it is being said to Christ because He is "in" your new self.

All things are "because of" Him doing a work "in" us, by understanding what I just explained is happening in you .... and you believing that it is true, God is developing the gift of discernment in you, He is exercising that muscle that needs strength, HIS STRENGTH.

Nothing is too harsh if taken in the Spirit, because it is all for His purpose in us.

Jugg

We are very close to sharing a language for this, Rick. After all, we already know we agree, right? I wonder if what we debate is more a question of what is a profitable perspective for us than what is our true condition? Are we to see ourselves as Christ saw Himself or shall we shall we strive to see ourselves as we are seen by God?

Shall we set our minds on things low or lofty?

Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. (Rom 12:16 NKJV)

and,

Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Php 2:1-11 NKJV)

Do we see ourselves as the completed work in Christ that we really are or do we see ourselves in our fallen state? Shall we repel attractiveness and be attracted to repulsiveness? If we say “No! Heaven forbid!” then we reject Jesus, for this was His identity and focus. Jesus was toast and if He knew nothing else then that was enough. For this, God exalted Him to the Highest.

Behold, My Servant shall deal prudently; He shall be exalted and extolled and be very high. Just as many were astonished at you, So His visage was marred more than any man, And His form more than the sons of men; So shall He sprinkle many nations. Kings shall shut their mouths at Him; For what had not been told them they shall see, And what they had not heard they shall consider. (Isa 52:13-15 NKJV)

We all know we have been brought to this cross, but do we really know what that is? David knew what it was to identify with Christ at His lowest point:

Have mercy on me, O LORD, for I am in trouble; My eye wastes away with grief, Yes, my soul and my body! For my life is spent with grief, And my years with sighing; My strength fails because of my iniquity, And my bones waste away. I am a reproach among all my enemies, But especially among my neighbors, And am repulsive to my acquaintances; Those who see me outside flee from me. I am forgotten like a dead man, out of mind; I am like a broken vessel. For I hear the slander of many; Fear is on every side; While they take counsel together against me, They scheme to take away my life. But as for me, I trust in You, O LORD; I say, "You are my God." (Psa 31:9-14 NKJV)

To be honest, I would be in good company were I to find myself in this state.

Where you say "bearing false witness," Rick, that point is on mark and well taken. I had already realized that I can no longer tell Jonathan he sucks, but it was still good that we came to that agreement in the beginning. Oh if you could have witnessed his genuine, sheepish smile at that moment when he first admitted that to himself and to me.

32 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:46 pm

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Psalm 22 paints a beautiful picture of who we truly are.

33 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:14 pm

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Hi David,

I want to say something to you, and believe me I tremble when I say this.

Out of Love and Respect for you, and for The Lord, I am going to try to put this as gently as possible.

I may not see what you are seeing, or agree on some of your comments, but that doesn't mean that I can't share in your Joy. The closeness that you and your son is sharing is wonderful and for this I do rejoice.

Quote:
Are we to see ourselves as Christ saw Himself or shall we shall we strive to see ourselves as we are seen by God? End Quote:

We are to see ourselves as God see's us. But how does He see us? Doesn't He see us through the sacrifice of His Son? When He said that He was a worm, do you really think He was speaking in and of Himself?
Does He still see us in "Sin", as dirt, as sucking, as worthless etc...? NO.



If Christ be in us, we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit.


Quote:
Shall we set our minds on things low or lofty?

We are to set our mind on things above, and not on things of the earth.

Quote:
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. (Rom 12:16 NKJV)

To speak from an ascended place, is not "high things" it is in Christ, therefore it is not our opinion, amen?
"High things" are those things that exalts themselves above the Knowledge of God.


If we are to be of the same mind towards one another, then my mind has to see myself as Redeemed, Loved, beautiful, made in Christ's image etc.. for if my mind is telling me I am worthless, or I suck, or I'm dung....then is that how I see others too?

I hope you see where the problem comes in.

Revelation...does not Reveal "you" ever..It Reveals Him.
And I think I speak for pretty much all here, when I say that, I have never, ever, heard that "I suck" or am "dung" from Him.


Have I ever felt that way? You bet, but it was never from Him,... never. He knows where we are coming from, that would be like He would never do that.

But there is one that would.
When Revelation happens the flesh mourns, because something just came alive and something just died or was burned up.

Which do you think wants to cry out, look at me, look at me, don't you care, don't you see what is happening to me, don't you care that I'm perishing here?

True Revelation wants to exalt Him, and Him alone, and wants to shout it from the rooftops, He is Lord, He is Lord of all!!.

Please consider these things, I could no more see you as Dung, as I could see anyone else, not when seeing by faith in Christ and what "He" has finished.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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34 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:22 pm

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Oh Scherryl, yes amen! Father sees us as the apples of His eye, amen? Yes, He is love and is jealous for us! He will destroy all the things that hurt us (the sin in us). I have never ever received anything but love, adoration and mercy from Father, even when He is correcting me. Well I'm in tears now, I needed that refocus today. How easily does my focus shift to the wind and the waves, or upon my own failures. Pish posh, what can wind, waves and failures do to me when my Father is Lord of all and always has my back?

Thank You Father (and Scherryl! ) for the reminder and refocus. What a great way to start off the day. Smile

Love and blessings to all.

35 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:30 pm

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Hi Holly,

I'm so glad that this has blessed you.
I have found throughout the years with Him, that no matter where we stumble and fall, He is always there working in us and around us, to bring us into His perfect will.

And today of all days, I take Great comfort in "KNOWING" this.
And so much appreciate your words of encouragement.....

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
http://aplace2rest.forumotion.com

36 Re: Psalms 23 "Testimony" on Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:31 pm

Rosered


I remembered the password Sherryl gave me after 50 tries over the past 3 weeks , she may have helped me to remember , who knows but GOD Himself , but love to think they are fitted in Christ and HE LIVES NOW and in Power over all things ...

I am happy for her being with the Lord and all , but sad for us , I knew that ''something was off '' but took it as to me being gone for so long from here , and silly as it is sounding I did not want to be intrusive , we never ever know what someone is dealing with , I know , I know all from the Lords hand .... But to be made perfectly clear here , I loved you Scherryl , your sweet and most precious spirit was a rare and beautiful thing that I was graced to know in this life briefly and now being fully in the Spirit of truth and Love all we can do now is wait to be joining you one day in the Lords big Body being formed and lifted up in perfect place still . our great cloud of witnesses !!

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