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51 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:05 am

A.R.T.I.C

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Yes, amen Jeremy

You are right about the sleep of Adam, that's exactly what I was trying to get at in the Gethsemane thread, that's what was taking place in The Garden when Jesus went to them 3 times and woke them from sleep. This was such an important part of our redemption, just as the Cross itself.

This was the Will of Adam, that The Last Adam/Christ overcame.

To awaken the soul out of the Sleep of Adam.

Have you ever seen "The Cell"? You had mentioned the Matrix movie, I was just curious. I think you would enjoy it. That is if you can get past the gore, and look to the Spirit.

But to you address your opening statement, I've never found one, even those that are established in Kingdom principles that have ever seen Gen. 1:26- as The Christ, etc...

If you have, where are they? I've been on many a forum including TM. Although I haven't spent a whole lot of time there, just by certain comments that I heard I didn't find it.

Blessings




The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail...Because The Love of God...Will....Never....Fail!
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52 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:54 pm

LindaY


I have been seeing parts of this in scripture but couldn't put it all together. You younger ones have an advantage to some extent over us older generation in that you grew up with TV and the Matrix, etc. I never watched those movies and every time someone brings them up and speak of characters out of the Matrix and the plot and also the captain from the Enterprise, I can't think of his name now (my mind is gone right now)LOL, I have to spend so much time searching what you're talking about because I'm not familiar with any of these movies or the "whole" of the message being put forth. But, having said all of this, I know there are 2 different things I've been seeing for some time now and there's where the confusion lies for me. I think their is a veil over my eyes that I haven't fully "gotten it" yet or it's like someone is their with their hand on the light switch and I'm just waiting for them to flip the switch. I had a dream one night and I have no clue what it was but I've been waiting for the answer to it to come forth because of the scriptures that were just "there" for me to go look up and it lead me to something that I'm seeing a part of here but, it still hasn't "clicked" for me yet, if you know what I mean.

53 Gen 1&2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:54 pm

Hibbs


I never saw it although I have never been much for forums or message boards. I sure do see it now and I have been busy with demolition and remodeling at two levels during this tabernacles season. We helped Jeremy with his office remodel and knocked down walls and rebuilt walls (quite a tiring day I might add...keeping up with Jeremy). During the same period, Scherryl blew up the foundation upon which much of my house was constructed...wobbly though it was...and the Lord poured in some new cement...actually it was a great stone...and the vision and direction have come alive with an 8th day or new beginning that is causing my spirit to leap with anticipation.

I was just out praying and walking the dog...or she was walking me... and thinking about this past week. Talk about a major remodel! Now all that is needed is to carry off the debris and let another build thereon. I had thought that I had laid the foundation that no man can lay except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I now realize that I tried to build upon the victory of the cross and still somehow become perfect in Adam (the dirt man Adam) and the song came to mind:

On Christ the solid rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

When we try to build upon the foundation of dirt man Adam, are we not trying to build upon sand? Adam can never be righteous in himself. He stands judged and under a sentence of death (as so wonderfully shown by Bob Torango) and it is only as the new creation is formed in our dirt (or dust, or sand) that anything wonderful can be built. We do not build the house. Our job is to dig down to bedrock and lay the foundation on Christ. How much easier is that to understand when you see the image of Christ in the Adam of Genesis 1? How much plainer does it become when you recognize that the Adam of Gen 1 is a corporate (them) man? How wonderful does the fruit of all of the trees taste, when you realize who is in control and what His dominion really means?

Thank you Scherryl. Thank you Holy Spirit. Thank you Jesus....I'm beside myself. bounce



Last edited by Hibbs on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:08 pm; edited 2 times in total

54 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:56 pm

LindaY


This is something that I am trying to give my full attention to because I think that's where so much of my confusion lies in many things that I've seen in scripture but, am still "not" seeing.

55 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:05 pm

Hibbs


Linda...the promise of the Lord is: "Seek and you shall find." Before the land of our earth is watered, it becomes parched as the desert and God puts a thirst in us that only truth will quench. Patience is required because it is not about how hard you run, but how hungry and thirsty you are. It will be made plain...just look unto Him.

P.S. For twenty years I could not have a beer or go to the movies...had to be in church. Once you realize that God gives us all things freely to enjoy (except the obvious things that appeal solely to our fallen nature) then you can relax and let the truth come to you wherever you are and whatever you are doing. Movies have become part of the vernacular of our generation and I have had to put down that religious mindset and "expand my vocabulary" so to speak. I also happen to think that I may be the oldest on the forum...so quit thinking yourself old and using that for a fig leaf for Adam. You have been given everything pertaining to life and godliness in Him, so kick back and rejoice...your salvation draweth nigh.

56 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:12 pm

LindaY


Well, I sure have the thirst and hunger for truth Mark. I couldn't beleive it when I refreshed the page here and saw your post. The word bedrock had just come to mind and then when I saw your post, I was blown away. I know it's coming. I'm just waiting for it. Very Happy

57 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:50 pm

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Every firstborn in Egypt....must die. (This of course is a type and shadow).

But this is the Reality.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.




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58 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:00 pm

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I would like to run something by you guys in layman's terms.

When I think about things I go outside of time, which we have heard by others here that we need to do so and I agree (Present expression: think outside the box)

Anyway, I go back as far as I can, to the point where the only thing that existed was God, nothing else, and I have come to understand that even the Father knows what it is like to be dead and what I mean by that is, if we have no purpose. If all that existed at one point was only God, did He ever think to himself, "I have no purpose if this is all I am" (just a stagnant spirit doing nothing.

So now He starts thinking how to go about giving Himself purpose, don't want to go into a lot of detail here because those details are not my point.

When all there was, was God, the Father is neither male or female but contain the attributes of both as we see through the understanding of the flesh (the creation). The Father is soul and spirit, they give birth to the Son, the mind of God (Christ) the mind that was manifested outside of His Spirit and the Father (soul).

Now we know that the Son is the same as the Father, (If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father) Now what happens next is that Christ now does the same thing, He does what He sees the Father do, so He gives birth to a Spirit also, this is the spirit that is breath into the flesh of Adam, making him a living soul. In a sense, Christ give birth to His bride to be.

But we also have another dividing, of the one spirit out of Christ, that of being put into Adam and Eve, both are alike in that the each have soul and spirit but also that the have a veil between both of theirs where as the Father and the Son did not.

This is just a framework and I think others might fill it in, because Christ is of the Father and we are of Christ

Again, just thinking out loud.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

59 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:47 am

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Scherryl wrote:
I see, gods in the ordinary sense, (to whom the word of the Lord came to) Heavens more than one. These heavens and this earth is what man's interpretation of them are, and thereby were created by the carnal minds of men, and Religion, without Understanding from the Holy Spirit. For this reason, is why we see in the very next verse, "Darkness" this word is so important for us to understand it is "EVERYTHING" that the first Adam brought into this world.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

CLV
Gen 1:2 Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.

Notice it was Darkness before the Light. And not only that, but the time we get to Vs. 26&27 that speaks of Dominion, I have to stop and ask, "if there is Dominion being given, then there has to be something to have Dominion over," right?

I mean, what would be the point of having dominion, if there was nothing we had to rule over. Which brings us right back to the Darkness in vs. 2 Adam's disobedience.

The whole Garden scenario happened within the first Day of Gen.1..... 1 Day, = 1,000 yrs.....1,000 yrs. The Reign of Christ, From the Holy of Holies....10x10x10 It is the Life Span of Adam.

To be continued........




I have talked about the gods quite a bit in the same sense as you Scheryll. But thats not suprising because we see quite a bit the same. And especially Hermes. Why? Ok I'm going to give a short explanation that may turn into something much longer, but that is also not suprising because I can't seem to post short blurbs. Smile

All of the pagan gods are the same. They are all conglomerations of men. Nimrod is the archetype for all of the sun gods. He is known as Baal, Osiris, Bacchus, Zeus, Jupiter, Raama.

His father is Cush. The land of Kush is known as the birthplace of the gods in all of the pagan stories. He is the father of religion, since all religion and I don't mean pure worship in spirit, is of Babylon, which is Nimrods kingdom (Nimrod is an epithet likely meaning rebellion, his real name was probably Ninus which is the Babylonian sun-god). Now this is why I'm posting this here. You highlighted chaos. The word chaos comes from Cush!
And so the earth became chaos, as it fell into confusion. The woman of babylon sits on many waters, which waters are death, formless and void. Which happens to be the exact same thing we see in Gen 1 with the Spirit hovering over the waters. Look at the counterfeit compared to the Real. So we see in Gen 1 coming out of babylon, or Egypt.

Out of Egypt I have called Him.

Cush's other names Hermes, Thoth, Nebo, Odin, Wodan, Buddha

Jesus was transfigured on Mt. Hermon (hermes)

Moses died on Mt. Nebo

Jesus was made alive on the Mt. of Chaos. Life out of Death.

60 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:33 am

cross-eyed

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jugghead wrote:I would like to run something by you guys in layman's terms.

When I think about things I go outside of time, which we have heard by others here that we need to do so and I agree (Present expression: think outside the box)

Anyway, I go back as far as I can, to the point where the only thing that existed was God, nothing else, and I have come to understand that even the Father knows what it is like to be dead and what I mean by that is, if we have no purpose. If all that existed at one point was only God, did He ever think to himself, "I have no purpose if this is all I am" (just a stagnant spirit doing nothing.

So now He starts thinking how to go about giving Himself purpose, don't want to go into a lot of detail here because those details are not my point.

When all there was, was God, the Father is neither male or female but contain the attributes of both as we see through the understanding of the flesh (the creation). The Father is soul and spirit, they give birth to the Son, the mind of God (Christ) the mind that was manifested outside of His Spirit and the Father (soul).

Now we know that the Son is the same as the Father, (If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father) Now what happens next is that Christ now does the same thing, He does what He sees the Father do, so He gives birth to a Spirit also, this is the spirit that is breath into the flesh of Adam, making him a living soul. In a sense, Christ give birth to His bride to be.

But we also have another dividing, of the one spirit out of Christ, that of being put into Adam and Eve, both are alike in that the each have soul and spirit but also that the have a veil between both of theirs where as the Father and the Son did not.

This is just a framework and I think others might fill it in, because Christ is of the Father and we are of Christ

Again, just thinking out loud.

We all see that when you start messing with infinity, things get a bit unstable in our attempts to comprehend it. Using finite means to ascertain infinite truths never leaves one with the entirety of anything.

Our minds can "kind of" comprehend endlessness when applying it to what lies ahead. But in our logic and reason, applying infinity to what lies behind, in our minds, there's ALWAYS a beginning to something somewhere . . .but if their was, then it wouldn't be infinity would it?

I just had this thought drop in my mind last night . . .not totally related to this subject, but it kind of is. When I was first entering into the kingdom principles while I was still wet behind the ears as a pastor at the time, I had a number of people leaving my church as a result.

I didn't chase them down and I didn't change my direction to accomodate their discomfort. I continued pursuing the sound that was calling me to go in another direction from the traditional beliefs of the church I was to represent. It wasn't easy seeing people leave, but the call was just too strong for me to disreguard it.

But when our worship leader left, it was the hardest experience for me personally because he and I went way back. We saw our relationship with each other as David and Jonathan. We were that close. So when he called me on that Sunday afternoon to inform me he was stepping down, I was devastated. It had always left a hole in my heart from that point on through the rest of my tenure there. I missed his presence, his talent, his giftings. But I knew that again, where God was calling me, I couldn't hang on to both ends of the rope, I had to let go of one of them.

This past Saturday would have been our 10 year anniversary at the church. I spent the day doing another passion of mine, I went deer hunting. That was just a side note really. But in all of this, one main message that I'd pounded on practically every Sunday was the fact that we're called to walk in the spirit, not in the flesh. We're not to rely on our own reasoning, our own understanding. Natural reasoning and spiritual truth don't mix, and when people try, they produce giants that instill fear in others and pride in themselves.

Last night while I was standing under the shower, letting the water wash away the days ingredients from my skin, (it's a Quaker thing) it occurred to me, when my friend left the church, I never realized this all these years until now, but it was inevidible. Just as Moses was NEVER going to go into the promise land because he signified law, my friend was never going to be able to remain with us because of what "he" signified. You ready for the punch line? His last name was "Reasoner".

Coincidence? Not hardly.

61 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:58 am

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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I hope you take this in love

Just as you said, I can't change my direction to accommodate the discomfort of another

Are not all lines of reasoning for His purpose, either to show us who we are or to show us who He is?

Logic and reasoning walk hand in hand with faith, His logic and reasoning and my faith in His logic and reasoning, is it not His logic and reasoning that is being revealed, revealed in us?



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

62 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:10 am

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Or, are logic, reasoning, law, all of these flesh? This gets back to my earlier question. Is He truly in them, or do they merely point the way to Him? Might we have to get out of these realms entirely to fully see His face?

63 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:27 am

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thats interesting Nathan, no not a coincidence

64 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:41 am

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DavidHarreld wrote:Or, are logic, reasoning, law, all of these flesh? This gets back to my earlier question. Is He truly in them, or do they merely point the way to Him? Might we have to get out of these realms entirely to fully see His face?

Yes, all are of the flesh if they are not combined with faith

And is He in them? It is not a matter of asking if He is in them, He "is" them, God is logic, God is reasoning, God is law, God "is" everything, He is the reason for everything and everything "is" because of His reason.

Our problem, myself included, especially myself is that we want to be teachers "of" the truth where as God wants us to take a step back from that and become teachers of "how to "seek" the truth" and it is while He is teaching us how to seek the truth, He gives His truth along the way, a little at a time.

That was me, wanting to be a teacher "of" the truth rather than a teacher of "how to seek the truth". Because we do not know where anyone else is in their seeking, we may bring up a truth that has been shown to us, but another is not ready to understand it.

This is why I say, "I want to run something by you guys" I did not say, "This is the truth" or "This is a truth". I will always admit I might be wrong, that is staying in the condition that I was called, a state of humbleness.

I listen to what others have to say, and it is filed away, when it is time for me to understand, then God brings it back into play. I keep my path straight, and I try not to rush things like I have done in the past. And if I do get ahead of myself, He will humble me; bring me back when it is time.

These are things that I have come to understand, nothing more.

Rick



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

65 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:02 pm

LindaY


Rick,
I'm glad you said this because I was just about to ask, is there no hope for this man "Reasoner"? It seems from my understanding that even though Paul left and went to the Gentiles because of the unbelief of his family in the "flesh" and their unbelief that all through his letters he never gave up hope for them.

Reading these last few posts have actually strengthened my faith. My son is sitting in a prison right now but even though everyone is against me and would love to hear me say, you're right, there is no hope for him, there is something there that will never let me give up having hope for him.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 ΒΆ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I hope this is not offensive to anyone but, as long as there is breath in a man there is hope for him. At least that's how I understand it.


66 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:03 pm

LindaY


If my parents put a voodoo on me by naming me, God help me for sure. Are we to change our names?

67 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:13 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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LindaY wrote: there is something there that will never let me give up having hope for him.

I agree, this is what I have come to understand: the second we stop hoping is the second that we again crucify Christ upon the cross and put the Spirit of hope to death in us.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

68 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:18 pm

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LindaY wrote:If my parents put a voodoo on me by naming me, God help me for sure. Are we to change our names?

I wouldn't worry too much about that! Very Happy

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
(Rev 3:12 NKJV)


Doesn't Linda mean "pretty"? I thought I heard that somewhere.

Even Mr. Reasoner only has something to overcome: it is not his destiny to be stuck in the flesh. Maybe the "chance" naming of this family was all about giving Nathan some encouragement at this very time.

69 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:45 pm

LindaY


I don't know what it means David but, my middle name is Diane which doesn't have very good references from what I see in scripture.

Nathan is the reason that I'm here in this forum. (no pun intended) When I was at TM I began emailing him when he quit posting there asking him to post more. There was something different about him and what he had to say that manifested the fruits of the Spirit in what he had to say. I haven't had the honor of meeting his wife yet but, I truly believe that there is much truth that has lead him to where we are today and why we are all here. Most of all the love he has for everyone around him. It shows. Smile

70 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:00 pm

cross-eyed

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Wow, thanks for that Linda, that was very moving.

And to the earlier posts, there's no offense taken at all. We're all in this together, aye'?
We may all be in different rooms but on the same level, or in the same room on different levels, either way, it's still all in the Father's house.

As to the logic and reason . . . this can become a bit dicey if I don't portray it rightly. But again, the point is not that we become brain-dead. But it's the idea that our minds are extremely complicated and diverse to say the least, but are the post powerful tools and weapons as we progress through THIS REALM.

But when we pass through the veil, when we go from labor to rest, from six day to the seventh, along with that comes an even deeper transition within our own being. Because of the fact that in the spirit, that which used to be last is now first, that which was once the least is now the greatest . . .we can't very well continue to progress and mature in his nature and continue to embrace the same process through which we operate when we're outside the veil, no?

There is a peace that PASSES UNDERSTANDING . . .a joy that's UNSPEAKABLE . . .there are things that can not be confined to natural capacities. When we read things written by each other, and we're not "getting" the entirety of what's being said, but yet within us, there's still that familiar sound, we become aware that just because we aren't "seeing" what's being said, it doesn't mean that it's false or unstable. The sound of the spirit connects with our SPIRIT which gives us that inward affirmation to what's been said, even though our minds aren't there yet.

In the same token, if we then embrace "only" what we can understand, how much more have we missed out on because our mental capacities can only see in part? Let me ask it this way, "when" we're in deep studies, contemplations and deductive reasoning, is that walking in the spirit or flesh?

"Well, if it's studying Scripture . . .isn't "that" spiritual? I'd say no because it's relying again on mental capabilities rather than spiritual revelation. See the thing is, the Peter experience when Jesus asked "who do men say that I am?" That was for me, the signification of deductive reasoning. "Everyone" has an opinion of who they think Jesus is.

But when Jesus said "Who do YOU say that I am?" that opened a door to the other side. The question was, am I going to rely on my reasoning? Or on what's being revealed? Peter went with what was being revealed over what everyone else's opinions were. And Jesus jumped on that and exclaimed that FLESH AND BLOOD CAN'T TEACH YOU THIS . . .again . . .natural reasoning.

I think another example of that is in Matthew 24, the very beginning of the chapter when the disciples were trying to bring to Jesus' attention all the human effort put in these great monuments . . .Jesus merely stated that every one of them would be completely leveled. Many people put a lot of pride in how intelligent they've become because they've taken so much time and energy applying themselve to as much information and knowledge and in doing so, they place themselves above others, and measure people by their level of intelligence.

Let me tell you now, if that's what you've done with me, then we're in for a world of trouble because if truth be told, I'm NOT the brightest crayon in the box when it comes to smarts. And I don't mean that with false humility either. And now that I'm in a place were revelation surpasses knowledge, I'm acutally relieved that I "didn't" spend all my time and energy pursuing knowledge . . .it's like what Paul says . . .it's all dung.

No, what I share, hasn't come from years of college, degrees, or study. I've been through "some" schooling and I've done "some" studying, but to be honest, everything that I was taught and had learned, I've pretty much walked away from all of that years ago anyway. (crowbar)

Now, I don't see knowledge as the ultimate end of the journey. What I see in the importance of knowledge now is, it "affirms" with what's already been revealed. See the difference? Reasoning does come in to play . . .after the birthing of the understanding first.

71 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:19 pm

LindaY


And to the earlier posts, there's no offense taken at all. We're all in this together, aye'?

Yes we are Nathan. Smile

Let me tell you now, if that's what you've done with me, then we're in for a world of trouble because if truth be told, I'm NOT the brightest crayon in the box when it comes to smarts

No, I'm not trying to make you a "god" Nathan, if that's what you're saying here. After I read what I posted I almost went back and changed it but, decided to leave it as is. I know WHO is actually putting all of this together. I didn't mean to put you on some type of pedestal and wasn't trying to do so. If that's what you mean. It wasn't you who drew me to Him. It was the hunger and thirst for truth that did that and His drawing.

72 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:31 pm

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If it is misunderstood by how I state things, I apologize, but what you just said Nathan is exactly what I am trying to say.

For me, it's like God reveals "a result" to my spirit and then it is through the study of Scripture that the result is confirmed.



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

73 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:17 pm

cross-eyed

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Wow . . . how is it you can say in one sentence what takes me three pages! That was worded perfectly for me! Revelation from the Father is the "whole" Word in us, Scripture merely offers smaller pieces that, when the Spirit puts them together, matches up with the whole Word in us.

See . . .I still can't do it in one sentence!!

74 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:23 pm

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cross-eyed wrote:That was worded perfectly for me!

I have long thought of scripture as a scorecard that we can look at to see how well we are doing in the places where He has taken us.

75 Re: Gen 1 & 2 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:29 pm

J.U.G.G.H.E.A.D.

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cross-eyed wrote:Wow . . . how is it you can say in one sentence what takes me three pages! That was worded perfectly for me! Revelation from the Father is the "whole" Word in us, Scripture merely offers smaller pieces that, when the Spirit puts them together, matches up with the whole Word in us.

See . . .I still can't do it in one sentence!!

Because it was not me making the statement, it was the Father making it through me

in other words, it was not flesh and blood (me) that revealed it to you, it was the Father



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

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